George Floyd death

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Sollie said:
Or incompetence.
Tender goes out. Dude wins. First problem - he did not realize he has to carry spares ... :sneaky:
Specialized piece of kit goes belly up. Some dude from a govt department demands our people are on site the next morning 8am. Erm, which part of f-off don't you understand? We're an independent business. Do you have a contract? Where is the order? Eventually a dude selling printer cartridges gets the contract to source the components from us. :X3:

But then of course, sometimes you are privy to discussions where ex-MK members sit discussing tenders ... the things you hear, the games. Not enough skills? Just throw more people with no clue at it. Let's not even start talking about the state our our cyber security. Nvm - just submit your info ... but I say too much.
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Incompetence, and the parts thing should've been adressed in the specification so would would also fall under incompetence.
Neuk_ said:
General market tenders? For government tenders you have almost zero chance unless you are 100% black owned and SOE tenders are heading that way but you can still get away with a high BEE score. Then, once you have the tender if your BEE score drops there are either heavy penalties or the contract simply gets cancelled, with some of your BEE rating completely out of your hands.
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I've only worked with soe tenders. I don't see how it could be impossible to get gov tenders without bee, I assume you got some proof of that? That doesn't tie in with my experience, but I'm open to learning because I haven't worked directly with gov in that aspect.
 
Craig said:
I've only worked with soe tenders. I don't see how it could be impossible to get gov tenders without bee, I assume you got some proof of that? That doesn't tie in with my experience, but I'm open to learning because I haven't worked directly with gov in that aspect.
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When you say BEE are you referring to what I said about BEE ownership as they are not one and the same in my view? You can have a BEE level without any BEE ownership but I don't have concrete evidence of having to be 100% BEE owned in order to get government tenders. I have interacted with various people who have been head hunted by companies that are 100% BEE owned and all they simply do is apply for every single government tender and then sub-contract to whomever they can find to do the work. They apply for tenders purely on their 100% BEE ownership status.
 
Craig said:
Incompetence, and the parts thing should've been adressed in the specification so would would also fall under incompetence.
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Oh, it is. But of course, prior to dishing out the tender, nobody checked. Now nobody wants to rock the boat ... enjoy, we all are a beneficiary of this incompetence.

Craig said:
I've only worked with soe tenders. I don't see how it could be impossible to get gov tenders without bee, I assume you got some proof of that? That doesn't tie in with my experience, but I'm open to learning because I haven't worked directly with gov in that aspect.
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Here is your problem: Say you specialize (as pointed out previously). You operate in a niche market and essentially you supply high value scarce parts, service that specific sector of the industry. Add the exchange rate as everything has to be imported. So can't play BEE in your sourcing. Every time a tender comes out, everybody plus the cat and the dog climbs in not understanding what they're dealing with, don't even know the questions to ask at a tender meeting (in ~20 yrs I was asked to assist once when an objection came up. After explaining what is up, eyes went big - the suppliers changed). When you point out the skills and people aren't available, "you're a racist", kid you not. (pm me if you don't believe it). The prices gets driven down, the people evaluating the responses are clueless themselves, but the responses ticks the boxes (ala tick-box exercise). Once the tender gets awarded, suddenly the new supplier realizes he has a problem. Already his pricing is way off base, below fair market price, but comes crying to you and wants to do a deal. If an item is R100k, no matter how you want, you can't supply it at R20k. So people take shortcuts. We try and help. Now we see people with no skills mess up stuff they don't even know how to power up (like today again). We see fun all the way, we all pay.
 
Neuk_ said:
When you say BEE are you referring to what I said about BEE ownership as they are not one and the same in my view? You can have a BEE level without any BEE ownership but I don't have concrete evidence of having to be 100% BEE owned in order to get government tenders. I have interacted with various people who have been head hunted by companies that are 100% BEE owned and all they simply do is apply for every single government tender and then sub-contract to whomever they can find to do the work. They apply for tenders purely on their 100% BEE ownership status.
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Pretty much this. See my previous post. Sometimes we tell them we can't help, sometimes we can't make a plan. If a software house with a few developers in said product suddenly qualify for a hardware contract ... (see comment on who evaluates - clueless)
 
Sollie said:
Consider the company supplying services not otherwise available in the country, goods not available in the country. Does buying from an Indian supplier in the USA count? Obviously not. What now?

When we come to that R10m, that is not profit, it's turnover. So on R10m at a 15% margin? Plus other costs, taxes ...
Suddenly R10m becomes a pittance.

So, try increasing the BEE rating by starting to feed kids etc. But let's not go there, "The Director" had one of my reality checks removed after he spewed his bs and I pointed out facts.
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I am not sure I follow what you are trying to say,

Most companies will try and source locally first and then if cannot find it, will source from overseas companies, of which there will be no reason for the BEE levels to be adhered to, in fact the tender will be written without the 80/20 split enforced into it.

We are importers of specialized instruments into the country and since there is no local manufacturers for this equipment, all of our imported spend on international suppliers is discounted from our BEE spend (since we cannot source it locally) and therefore the BEE rules don't apply for foreign purchases.

With regards to the 10 million, if you are making more than 10 million a year and you purchase locally and those suppliers are BEE rated then you should qualify for spend. If you are making more than 10 million a year and your suppliers are international, well then you are exempt for your spend for your scorecard.

Personally I think a lot of people on this forum start talking about BEE and the things involved when they have no clue of how it actually works. Yes BEE is geared with an advantage to black people over white, but it does not mean you cannot get tenders and deals if you are white. Our company deals with Government often and we get a number of instrument sales and service deals on a yearly basis from government and we are 100% white owned. Maybe we are just lucky and in a specialized field that we don't see much major competition such as in basic service providers but we still get contracts and deals from Government and SOE's

and this bit

So, try increasing the BEE rating by starting to feed kids etc. But let's not go there, "The Director" had one of my reality checks removed after he spewed his bs and I pointed out facts.
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what does this even mean?
 
The Voice said:
Ingerrrrrlaaaand

To be fair, I'd say about 50% of the people protesting all over the world have little or no idea what they're even doing there.
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buka001 said:
Yes.

41 arrested as per this article.

www.standard.co.uk

41 arrests and 22 officers injured over weekend's London BLM protests

The protests passed largely peacefully but skirmishes erupted in Whitehall on Saturday and Sunday night
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
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This guy in particular?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272485584947286016

Or this one?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272506930670571522
 
konfab said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1272267210334011393

I don't agree with Macron on much, but he is correct here.
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Oh I have no problem tearing down statues of Confederate leaders. I don't know why in the hell you'd ever want to keep them around in the first place? It's an ugly reminder of a terrible period of US history. When you get into the history of the statues themselves, they were also frequently commissioned by hideously racist people themselves, like the founders of the KKK and so on.

Now the Seattle Autonomous Zone, I think that's monumentally stupid.
 
cerebus said:
Oh I have no problem tearing down statues of Confederate leaders. I don't know why in the hell you'd ever want to keep them around in the first place? It's an ugly reminder of a terrible period of US history. When you get into the history of the statues themselves, they were also frequently commissioned by hideously racist people themselves, like the founders of the KKK and so on.
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Maybe statues should be there to remind people of their past.
It was one of the suggestions that was made with the whole RhodesMustFall thing, was that instead of tearing down the statue, they would put up the history of what they did such that to contextualise the statue in a historically correct way.
 
Neuk_ said:
When you say BEE are you referring to what I said about BEE ownership as they are not one and the same in my view? You can have a BEE level without any BEE ownership but I don't have concrete evidence of having to be 100% BEE owned in order to get government tenders. I have interacted with various people who have been head hunted by companies that are 100% BEE owned and all they simply do is apply for every single government tender and then sub-contract to whomever they can find to do the work. They apply for tenders purely on their 100% BEE ownership status.
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This I've seen, and those companies don't last long. Although I struggle to understand how you can get big tenders purely on BEE status, it makes no sense. Smaller orders maybe yes, tenders it's unlikely without some degree of corruption.
Sollie said:
Oh, it is. But of course, prior to dishing out the tender, nobody checked. Now nobody wants to rock the boat ... enjoy, we all are a beneficiary of this incompetence.


Here is your problem: Say you specialize (as pointed out previously). You operate in a niche market and essentially you supply high value scarce parts, service that specific sector of the industry. Add the exchange rate as everything has to be imported. So can't play BEE in your sourcing. Every time a tender comes out, everybody plus the cat and the dog climbs in not understanding what they're dealing with, don't even know the questions to ask at a tender meeting (in ~20 yrs I was asked to assist once when an objection came up. After explaining what is up, eyes went big - the suppliers changed). When you point out the skills and people aren't available, "you're a racist", kid you not. (pm me if you don't believe it). The prices gets driven down, the people evaluating the responses are clueless themselves, but the responses ticks the boxes (ala tick-box exercise). Once the tender gets awarded, suddenly the new supplier realizes he has a problem. Already his pricing is way off base, below fair market price, but comes crying to you and wants to do a deal. If an item is R100k, no matter how you want, you can't supply it at R20k. So people take shortcuts. We try and help. Now we see people with no skills mess up stuff they don't even know how to power up (like today again). We see fun all the way, we all pay.
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All of that comes down to incompetence as well, as you can add CIDB grading to your specification and put references for similar jobs as a requirement as well. That's an easy way to weed out suppliers like that, if you want to weed them out. If you don't it's kind of obvious why you wouldn't want to, then it comes back to corruption again. The rules itself are not the problem, it's the implementation of it that feeds the opinion of uninformed people like rietrot, who then repeats it with zero understanding of how it works.
 
truman19 said:
Rietrot asked a question and I used a source that explains the answer in a detailed fashion (unless you would like to question the content of the article ofcourse)
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No you didn't. Your source didn't give one example of white supremacy, and very weak examples of racism if we work on a more modern SJW definition of racism.
 
ISP cash cow said:
what does this even mean?
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ED & SED points. An associate was feeding ~200 kids as part of his company's social responsibility program. When the BEE system was revised, suddenly he was at a disadvantage and he could not even afford to do this anymore.
 
konfab said:
Maybe statues should be there to remind people of their past.
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That's not why people are enraged about those who want to tear them down.

It was one of the suggestions that was made with the whole RhodesMustFall thing, was that instead of tearing down the statue, they would put up the history of what they did such that to contextualise the statue in a historically correct way.
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Rhodes? Yeah tear down that mfker as well. It's shameful to honor such people.

I do acknowledge that Churchill is much more ambiguous. I don't support tearing his statues down, but then again nobody has done more than spray painting them I believe.
 
cerebus said:
That's not why people are enraged about those who want to tear them down.



Rhodes? Yeah tear down that mfker as well. It's shameful to honor such people.

I do acknowledge that Churchill is much more ambiguous. I don't support tearing his statues down, but then again nobody has done more than spray painting them I believe.
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So it is perfectly fine to tear down anything that offends you? Even if it doesn't belong to you?
 
Sollie said:
ED & SED points. An associate was feeding ~200 kids as part of his company's social responsibility program. When the BEE system was revised, suddenly he was at a disadvantage and he could not even afford to do this anymore.
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oh ok thanks I was a bit confused on all of that :giggle:

Yes with the Revised BEE rulings it did make it tougher for white companies to get higher BEE ratings (we were originally level 3) and under the new rules we just make it onto getting a certificate (level 8) but we can still get one.

Some of the new BEE rules I don't agree with such as the supplier development fund they have brought out to pay for but other such as the skills development and the Social economic funds I have no problem paying for (and we pay a sh!tload for it). I personally pay this directly to the parties so and not through incubators and the such like so I know the funds are going directly to where they are needed.

At least I know we are contributing to some small way in improvements in our society.
 
Neuk_ said:
When you say BEE are you referring to what I said about BEE ownership as they are not one and the same in my view? You can have a BEE level without any BEE ownership but I don't have concrete evidence of having to be 100% BEE owned in order to get government tenders.
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This is wrong, as you cannot be BEE level 1 without a hundred percent black ownership, as well as paying for socio economic, development , skills development and the other hoops that all companies jump through to score your 100 points
 
Black Lives Matter protests: Atlanta shooting of Rayshard Brooks declared homicide

www.bbc.com

Atlanta police shooting: Rayshard Brooks death declared homicide

Protests continue after the 27-year-old became the latest African American to be killed by police.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

2728.jpg



A medical examiner in Atlanta, Georgia, has declared the death of an African-American man to be homicide after he was shot in an encounter with police.

Rayshard Brooks died while fleeing from two white police officers in a restaurant car park late on Friday.

Protests erupted after his death, weeks after another black man, George Floyd, was killed in custody in Minneapolis.

Atlanta's police chief quit and the police officer suspected of shooting Mr Brooks was fired.
 
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