George Floyd death

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Cray said:
Statues are about more than just recording history, there are about lifting up someone as an example to strive too.. Should the US have told the Iraqis not to topple statues of Saddam Hussein?

You can teach the history of the slave trade without literally putting the likeness of a slave trader on a pedestal.
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Iraq is a shíthole today because they toppled the statues of Saddam Hussein. They should have left it.

This is actually serious. It builds on the culture and origin story of the people. It doesn't matter if it is a slave trader from 1600 something. Most people dont really cares about the details. It is just important to have it there. Destruction contributes nothing. You can arguably replace old(irrelevant)statues with newer ones, but then the emphasis should be on the new and building not destroying.
 
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:unsure: Never Trumper neocons not supporting Trumptard. What will Fake News™ Media think of next? Water is made of hydrogen and oxygen? Grass is green?
 
ponder said:
History books are being rewritten, education syllabuses are changed.
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So are, statues supposed to be some sort of grand arbiter of truth? Statues can be erected for a myriad of reasons, why are they a more accurate version of history than books?
 
Cray said:
Statues are about more than just recording history, there are about lifting up someone as an example to strive too.. Should the US have told the Iraqis not to topple statues of Saddam Hussein?

You can teach the history of the slave trade without literally putting the likeness of a slave trader on a pedestal.
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Vorastra said:
The same way we have an airport named King Shaka.
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Are there some Ghandi statues left standing?
 
Cray said:
So are, statues supposed to be some sort of grand arbiter of truth? Statues can be erected for a myriad of reasons, why are they a more accurate version of history than books?
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That's an extremely deep rabbit hole. Are you sure you really want to go down it? That would mean there are no heroes. We would also end up with claims by the boers against the Zulu and English, the San against the Xhosa, the Xhosa against the Zulu ... and that's just here, extrapolate it globally - all in the name of the truth applied with modern understanding to a world that long ceased to exist. If we're honest, it doesn't work just one way based upo the perp's skin colour.
 
Little-Mermaid said:
It's really easy to judge by modern standards. The history of human kind is one of slavery. As his wiki article states some of his philanthropic endeavours are still running today and it clear the statue was not to glorify slavery.
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Not entirely the point. Slavery invoked volatility. Negro Emancipation, which it was called, was called on by the Catholic church, the church in that time was entrenched within the political statute. Parliament rallied against the West India Lobby (Pro-slavery).

Colston’s largest contribution went to the English Anglicans, which was directly involved in slavery, as well as to the initiatives by Tories which supported the Anglican. Philanthropy built on slavery.

Yes, those he contributed to may remember him, like the Merchant Venturers which remembers their prominent Bristol slave traders as a history lesson,

https://www.merchantventurers.com/who-we-are/history/embracing-the-history-of-bristol/

Embracing the History of Bristol
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The transatlantic slave trade undoubtedly played a significant role in the growth of Bristol during the 18th century.

Today, Bristol continues to struggle with its past and with the profile of Edward Colston within the City. It is clear that we must address and acknowledge Bristol’s historic connection to the slave trade in a way that is illuminating and meaningful.

Whilst we cannot change the past, we can help to eradicate modern-slavery by educating the young people of Bristol about the abhorrence of slavery, both past and present. The Society of Merchant Venturers continually reviews the curriculum at each of our schools to ensure that students are confident, equipped and prepared for the responsibilities they have as global citizens.

By embracing the history of our city, we can all learn valuable lessons that will enable us to build a strong, fair and united future for Bristol, a city proud of its diversity and inclusivity.

The Society of Merchant Venturers is actively working with leaders across Bristol who share our commitment to improve the quality of life for all. Accurately remembering and appropriately acknowledging Bristol’s connection to the slave trade is a discussion we are driving forward with purpose.
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Cray said:
So are, statues supposed to be some sort of grand arbiter of truth? Statues can be erected for a myriad of reasons, why are they a more accurate version of history than books?
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Think about it for a while, if everybody had your attitude towards destroying history every single statue will have to go because everybody has different viewpoints. Every time there's a war, new dispensation etc we will have to destroy what preceded. If something offends you destroy it!
 
Grant said:
Are there some Ghandi statues left standing?
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There is one in PMB if i recall correctly..
Sollie said:
That's an extremely deep rabbit hole. Are you sure you really want to go down it? That would mean there are no heroes.
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Am sure there are plenty of people throughout history that where heroic enough to warrant a statue and where also not slave traders..

Sure, the morality of the actions of someone like Churchill in South Africa can be viewed through different lenses bases on politics but I would have though that a slave merchant would be the one person that most people we would agree isn't worthy of veneration.
 
ponder said:
Think about it for a while, if everybody had your attitude towards destroying history every single statue will have to go because everybody has different viewpoints. Every time there's a war, new dispensation etc we will have to destroy what preceded. If something offends you destroy it!
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Politically speaking it is replacing one supremacy with another ;)
 
ponder said:
Think about it for a while, if everybody had your attitude towards destroying history every single statue will have to go because everybody has different viewpoints.
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Except that history hasn't been destroyed, a statue has and since you clearly aren't willing to concede the difference or explain why a statue is a more important a record of history than a wiki page then i kinda get the feeling you are just arguing about a catch phrase.

ponder said:
Every time there's a war, new dispensation etc we will have to destroy what preceded. If something offends you destroy it!
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Do you think the Iraqi's should have kept those massive statues of Saddam Hussein, should the Russians have retained the name of Stalingrad ? We put up statues and name cities to honor people, where is the honor in someone who engaged in the slave trade, don't we have better people from that era who are more deserving?
 
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