George Floyd death

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Randhir said:
Properly trained police who don't get their thrills from being violent with citizens, and proper oversight with actual repercussions. End qualified immunity.
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You can't have good community policing without qualified immunity. Especially in the US.
 
rietrot said:
His case fits perfectly within what I said.
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no it doesn't, because none of the cops that were at the scene bothered assisting him

and now the old man has a cracked skull, according to you, was he a criminal? because a cracked skull is a huge problem in my humble opinion
 
BLM keeping some good company.
www.assatasdaughters.org

Assata's Daughters

Assata's Daughters is a grassroots intergenerational collective of radical Black women located in the city of Chicago.
www.assatasdaughters.org www.assatasdaughters.org
Description:
AD was founded, planned, and operated by Black women, femmes, and gender non-conforming people to carry on the tradition of radical liberatory activism encompassed by Assata Shakur, to train up others in the radical political tradition of Black feminism, and to learn how to organize on the ground around the demand for Black liberation, particularly a demand for abolition.

In 2018, AD shifted from a collective-model to a formal organizational structure with a board and staff. At the bequest of those we served, the organization has now broadened its scope to provide lessons to young men and boys on toxic notions of masculinity, dismantling patriarchal systems of oppression, and understanding the impact of both on interpersonal relationships.

AD continues to be an abolitionist organization led by Black women using a Black queer feminist lens and relationship-based tactics to organize bases of young Black people in divested-from areas of Chicago.
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We believe in resistance and in the power of civil disobedience. Our campaigns agitate the status quo and directly confront the systems of our oppression. Our demands are not requests, they are an assertion of Black power and an insistence on self-determination. We encourage and support others to do the same.
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By the way, who is Assata Shakur? This is Assata Shakur.
Annotation 2020-06-12 094053.png
What a cool role model for black kids.
 
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Randhir said:
Properly trained police who don't get their thrills from being violent with citizens, and proper oversight with actual repercussions. End qualified immunity.
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Agreed, the whole thing is so circular in repercussions and division.

I'm just scared of an emasculated police force and bowing down like the U.K. @Randhir
 
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rietrot said:
Purely emotional reasoning. You don't even disagree with what I said.
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I was referring to the last part of your post where you said it shouldn't be a problem if you aren't a criminal, neither of those people were criminals yet both were offed by the cops.
 
saturnz said:
no it doesn't, because none of the cops that were at the scene bothered assisting him

and now the old man has a cracked skull, according to you, was he a criminal? because a cracked skull is a huge problem in my humble opinion
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They did assist him. It's very clear in the video.

You can't just pick up someone with a head injury.
 
Craig said:
I was referring to the last part of your post where you said it shouldn't be a problem if you aren't a criminal, neither of those people were criminals yet both were offed by the cops.
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Anecdotal, my claim is still true.
 
rietrot said:
The police are mostly* normal people doing their job. Like all government employees they are more on the incompetent side.

If you are not a criminal you shouldn't have any problems.
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Craig said:
Or that lady that got shot in her apartment by the cops raiding a wrong apartment looking for people that were already in jail. Or that aussie lady that got shot by the same cops she called for assistance.
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rietrot said:
Purely emotional reasoning. You don't even disagree with what I said.
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I don't understand. It wasn't the first botched raid by the police. Surely I'd be worried?
 
Randhir said:
Properly trained police who don't get their thrills from being violent with citizens, and proper oversight with actual repercussions. End qualified immunity.
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That is only part of the solution.

Training cannot replace basic intelligence. Biggest problem is that they basically allow almost any Tom Dick or Harry to join the police. Given that the police have the power to infringe on people's rights at a whim, you would think that there would be more due diligence in screening potential candidates. At a minimum, I would put a minimum requirement of an IQ above 100. Heck the military in the US have more stringent requirements with intelligence.

Once you do that, the culture has to shift towards a policing by consent by following the Peelian principles of police.

  1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
  2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
  3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
  4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
  5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
  6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
  7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
  8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
  9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles

But then you read articles like this and facepalm.
Jordan was deemed too smart for the police force because he received a high score on an intelligence test. Jordan, then 45, scored a 33, the equivalent of having an IQ of 125.

The average score nationally for police officers as well as for office workers, bank tellers and salespeople is 21 or 22, the equivalent of having an IQ of 104.

The city's rationale for the long-standing practice is that candidates who score too high could get bored with police work and quit after undergoing costly academy training.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-smart-to-be-a-cop/
 
rietrot said:
Anecdotal, my claim is still true.
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How is that anecdotal? You said you shouldn't have a problem with the cops if you're not a criminal, those two examples clearly indicate that that is untrue. There's many more reports of innocent people, both black and white, offed by cops.
 
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