Grad program vs Honours

[Johnatan56]

True - Honours is valuable.

I worked for a recruitment company as my first job. Experience is what sets you apart from those with the same degree. I have trained in colleges and again - employers do look at your qualifications, but if a person with the correct qualifications and experience applies, they stand a higher chance of getting the job.

I have a son doing his Honours in Physics. This is one field where I believe it is important to get your masters before you look for full time employment. It will set you apart from everyone with Bsc degrees. But in IT and business - you need experience. It is not the kind of job you can do easily with only book knowledge. In IT especially - you are going to be learning for the rest of your working life. So doing your honours while working is not going to be strange.

Everyone has different opinions - you need to decide what is right for you.

I think the argument here is what is it exactly that you want to do.

If you want to do something more complex in terms of it will involve a lot of academia knowledge like algorithm solving for particular work loads, then study on. If you want to work on everything with nothing too specialized, you can skip doing honors.

See what you want to do/what interests you and decide from there.

I just started my masters as I want to move into data analytics, it interests me quite a bit, but I need the base knowledge (plus stats ) before I can enter. That qualification gives me the base knowledge and teaches me how to approach a problem so I can solve it.

Your grad programme is a fast track into the work environment, you will leap frog most people's junior positions etc. As you're doing it at speed during your grad work.

Worst case you miss it is that you'll spend an extra year working somewhere, but could be that that place is just as good or better.

Without knowing the quality of the grad programme, it's difficult to say if it is worth it.

End effect it depends on where you want to go. That degree will open more doors in case you decide to do something different in the future.

Personally, I know if I stop studying I won't be going back, so I'm doing it all at once even though I am probably the youngest by 2/3 years in my course and probably a decade younger than the average.

 

[TribbleZA]

BTW, there are a lot of physicists in finance. They tend to be great applied mathematicians.

Yes - and on that level he is interested in working with electronics doing the maths. He could do any job that is dependent on advanced maths. He is also interested in solid state physics and quantum physics. He also did Genetics and got distinctions for both years. So he may want to do something in that field. The problem is - the field is too broad and there are not enough companies that let them explore more than one aspect.

And he wants to be a writer. He already writes fanfic and is really good at it. Some people need more time to decide.

 

[Steamy Tom]

Grad programme and honours part time once you settle in, obvious

 

[Solarion]

The fact that you got into a graduate program is gold. I used to be part of the recruitment process for graduate development programs in the UK. Just for Unilever alone for example there would be thousands of applications and only a small handful would get in. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

[cguy]

The fact that you got into a graduate program is gold. I used to be part of the recruitment process for graduate development programs in the UK. Just for Unilever alone for example there would be thousands of applications and only a small handful would get in. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

What type of positions were these for? It looks as though only a very small percentage of Unilever consists of software developers. Software developers are much more in demand.

Also, as a side note, the program you mention likely requires an English BSc, which is typically the level of an SA honours degree, not an SA 3 year degree.

 

[Solarion]

What type of positions were these for? It looks as though only a very small percentage of Unilever consists of software developers. Software developers are much more in demand.

Also, as a side note, the program you mention likely requires an English BSc, which is typically the level of an SA honours degree, not an SA 3 year degree.

They were for a whole mixture of positions, anything from financial management, IT management basically all across the board. The idea was to train up future managers and leaders within the organisations.

 

[dbcooper]

I suppose OP has made his decision at this point, but to drive the overarching opinion home:

Go for the experience. Not sure where the postgrad qualification will be read for, but if you have to do a research project, having access to an actual work environment will be gold when you have to choose your dissertation and the subsequent problem statement.

 

[[)roi(]]

I suppose OP has made his decision at this point, but to drive the overarching opinion home:

Go for the experience. Not sure where the postgrad qualification will be read for, but if you have to do a research project, having access to an actual work environment will be gold when you have to choose your dissertation and the subsequent problem statement.

Nope, the honours track would always be the better option for anyone with that option on the table. As @cguy implied going this route wIll only open more doors.

 

[TN04]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.
So I ended up choosing the graduate program.
I planned on going the honours route, and kept calling my university to check if I was successful, but was I kept being told to call the next day and so on. Other students got offers, but nothing happened for me. Closing date for the grad program arrived and I accepted.
One week into the grad program I get a call from my university asking why i'm taking so long to accept their offer. Turns out they forgot to contact me.
I think i'm better off studying somewhere else anyway.

 

[[)roi(]]

Also, as a side note, the program you mention likely requires an English BSc, which is typically the level of an SA honours degree, not an SA 3 year degree.

Similarly UK MEng, which varies between 4 to 5 years; the latter typically is a mix of electronics and CS, whereas the former is more akin to 4 year MSc.

 

[cguy]

I suppose OP has made his decision at this point, but to drive the overarching opinion home:

Go for the experience. Not sure where the postgrad qualification will be read for, but if you have to do a research project, having access to an actual work environment will be gold when you have to choose your dissertation and the subsequent problem statement.

The type of work you will be doing right out of varsity with a 3 year degree is unlikely to be fertile ground for research.

 

[dbcooper]

Nope, the honours track would always be the better option for anyone with that option on the table. As @cguy implied going this route wIll only open more doors.

Let me try again. It is not impossible to do both at the same time. But, to each his own. All I'm saying is, finding a job that can be a career is tough.

 

[dbcooper]

The type of work you will be doing right out of varsity with a 3 year degree is unlikely to be fertile ground for research.

Quite simply, this is inaccurate.

 

[cguy]

Quite simply, this is inaccurate.

Please explain. It seems that you are either underestimating what is done in research or overestimating the complexity of the work new hires are exposed to.

 

[dbcooper]

Please explain. It seems that you are either underestimating what is done in research or overestimating the complexity of the work new hires are exposed to.

I think that if you have to wait to be shown what is research-worthy, then you should acquire the big-picture view required. That is down to the individual. At honours level, you are not required to commit new knowledge (PhD), or have a plan to solve the problem(Masters). You only have to establish what is wrong, and foray into what was done to date to understand it, and then recommend the frameworks to be consulted to formulate best practice. In other words, explain what is wrong, and explain why it is important to continue your research.

*Edit* If you have a null hypothesis, then your learning experience are all the better for it.

 

[cguy]

I think that if you have to wait to be shown what is research-worthy, then you should acquire the big-picture view required. That is down to the individual. At honours level, you are not required to commit new knowledge (PhD), or have a plan to solve the problem(Masters). You only have to establish what is wrong, and foray into what was done to date to understand it, and then recommend the frameworks to be consulted to formulate best practice. In other words, explain what is wrong, and explain why it is important to continue your research.

*Edit* If you have a null hypothesis, then your learning experience are all the better for it.

It’s not a matter of being “shown” - very few 3rd year grads get to do the kind of work that really exercises a computer science degree and builds on those skills straight off the bat.

An honours degree offers precisely that, both by providing advanced coursework and by giving exposure to research (and seasoned researchers). The opportunities one has with this provide a much better grounding for a career.

From personal experience, my honours project involved advanced topics that I never would have been exposed to in industry with my 3 year BSc. FYI, it was novel research and was published in both a peer reviewed conference proceedings and peer reviewed journal. As you say, generating new knowledge certainly isn’t required, but the opportunity at least is there.

 

[dbcooper]

FYI, it was novel research and was published in both a peer reviewed conference proceedings and peer reviewed journal.

So cool...

My personal experience was a lot different, being that I only got to participate in an honours course after 10+ years of working. I guess if the issue of paying for it was nonexistent, I would have continued down the academic road as well.

I responded, as one do, from a perspective that would involve personal circumstance, had the same opportunity presented itself after my third year back then. Can I read your paper somewhere?

 

[wcm]

OP it's a tough choice as you are young and both should be done, however working and studying part time is not easy. As far as I know studying honours part time takes 2 years and those initial 2 years starting out your first job is demanding and onerous which makes studying even more difficult.

I would say do honours and then work unless you understand your limits and are extremely hard working. It's tough but it can be done simultaneously.

 

[cguy]

So cool...

My personal experience was a lot different, being that I only got to participate in an honours course after 10+ years of working. I guess if the issue of paying for it was nonexistent, I would have continued down the academic road as well.

It's great that you managed to do it while working (or perhaps have the opportunity to take the time off). After you finished your degree, did you change your company or field or type of work at your job? My feeling is that this becomes harder, once one is already entrenched in a particular industry.

I responded, as one do, from a perspective that would involve personal circumstance, had the same opportunity presented itself after my third year back then. Can I read your paper somewhere?

My circumstances led me all the way through a PhD, and my honours year was over 20 years ago. I am primarily basing my perspective on the people I see being hired into the most sought after companies, and also the hindsight from seeing the career progressions of my colleagues from my high-school/BSc/honours/masters/PhD studies unfold over the last 20+ years. There is definitely a tendency to get into "better" (defined as both lucrative and interesting) fields from the outset, given more education as a basis. I also see very few people going back to study, and even fewer doing something different after they do - the biggest exception being those with just high school getting a degree, and then changing their job types completely.

I don't want to disclose my identity to strangers on the internet, so I can't unfortunately give you a link. There have been many papers since though.

 

[dbcooper]

It's great that you managed to do it while working (or perhaps have the opportunity to take the time off). After you finished your degree, did you change your company or field or type of work at your job? My feeling is that this becomes harder, once one is already entrenched in a particular industry.



My circumstances led me all the way through a PhD, and my honours year was over 20 years ago. I am primarily basing my perspective on the people I see being hired into the most sought after companies, and also the hindsight from seeing the career progressions of my colleagues from my high-school/BSc/honours/masters/PhD studies unfold over the last 20+ years. There is definitely a tendency to get into "better" (defined as both lucrative and interesting) fields from the outset, given more education as a basis. I also see very few people going back to study, and even fewer doing something different after they do - the biggest exception being those with just high school getting a degree, and then changing their job types completely.

I don't want to disclose my identity to strangers on the internet, so I can't unfortunately give you a link. There have been many papers since though.

I did it while working full-time, but I am still doing what I have been doing after having studied full-time for the last time in 2003. Nowadays, the tendency in SA is becoming that increasingly, companies to look for a degree combined with certifications, in any event. At times I have wondered if I shouldn't just have done that. As it stands, I still have a desire to read for a master's degree