Hashim Amla

Beavis said:
Bottom line mr outcast.... ICC ODI rankings shows AB as number one with # on his tail.... regardless the countless stats you throw at us... ICC says on current form HE is the best...

Sanga's good form has made him surpass AB in test rankings, so the ranking system works... :p

These batters are so close that if one fails or have a bad tour, they will be surpassed by someone else... great for cricketing fans IMO
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thestaggy said:
Nah man, why did you go there?

Does it matter if some people don't see him as #1? He is without doubt one of the two best batsmen in the country at the moment and no one will argue against that.

You must also factor in that AB's style of play is more appealing to a wider group of people purely because he is a highlight real. I'd say Hash is the purist's cricketer and purists are in the minority. This is the age of smashing boundaries and scoring centuries in 50 - 60 balls and in that regard AB is more appealing and stands out more.
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All of you make wonderfull points, but personally I still stand by my arguemnt that if you start putting AB at Amla's level then you're drag up a whole batch of players (Clarke, Warner, SteveSmith, Kohli, Dhoni, Ross Taylor, Williamson, Mathews, Younis Khan, Safraz, Shezad, Root etc)

Amla will belong alongside Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Chanderpaul, Sachin & Sanga. AB will not belong there!!! (Williamson, Kohli&Steve Smith might)
 
ZCFOutkast said:
Not sure if you haven't noticed, but I'm often right. Chester Williams, Sephaka, Paulse, Chiliboy, Ntini, Tsolekile, Gibbs, Phangiso, Alviro, Ashwell Prince etc (later Parnell, Reeza etc) all our high profile players. Do you honestly think they've had or will have pretty biographies? At least I've given you guys a foregleam of some of them. It's been true for most if not all our cricket players of colour. I'm right about the amount of patience, consistency&opportunities they receive compared to lesser performing white players at the same time. if I'm called delusional
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Hmmm.

Biography[edit]
In 2002 Williams released his controversial authorised biography, simply titled "Chester", in which he claimed that he was shunned by some of his team mates in the 1995 Springbok squad and was called racist names by James Small,[1] though he later clarified, "When we were together as a team, the team-spirit was good. We partied together, we had fun together, we stuck by one another. Those other things happened while we were playing against one another in the Currie Cup or domestic competitions. But that's in the past now. We have all moved on and everybody's happy."[2]
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Not justifying what Small is alleged to have said, but smack-talk on the field is nothing new and often times it can get nasty.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
All of you make wonderfull points, but personally I still stand by my arguemnt that if you start putting AB at Amla's level then you're drag up a whole batch of players (Clarke, Warner, SteveSmith, Kohli, Dhoni, Ross Taylor, Williamson, Mathews, Younis Khan, Safraz, Shezad, Root etc)

Amla will belong alongside Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Chanderpaul, Sachin & Sanga. AB will not belong there!!! (Williamson, Kohli&Steve Smith might)
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If AB continues to plunder bowling attacks the way he currently does, he most certainly will be remembered as a great, at least in ODI circles. AB is playing the game exactly the way people want it played nowadays.
 
OT James Small was a thug of note in his rugby playing days!! He dished out abuse to all and sundry when playing against them! I recall a provincial game where he was all over Danie Gerber! Found it hard to believe how this snot nosed brat appeared to be gesturing and hurling abuse towards a legend of the game!
 
thestaggy said:
If AB continues to plunder bowling attacks the way he currently does, he most certainly will be remembered as a great, at least in ODI circles. AB is playing the game exactly the way people want it played nowadays.
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It'll be a while before we play West Indies again.:D

You forget that AB doesn't plunder attacks all the time. We seen that several times under various situations in all formats. If he could then he wouldn't fail when Amla fails remember? He can be easily tied down across all formats when there's pressure. The only guys who play freely all the time under all circumstances and hardly ever grind are Amla, Sanga, Warner&Kohli. It' no coincidence that the runs they score reflect the amout of time they spend at the crease.

This is a top top point that you made:
You must also factor in that AB's style of play is more appealing to a wider group of people purely because he is a highlight real. I'd say Hash is the purist's cricketer and purists are in the minority. This is the age of smashing boundaries and scoring centuries in 50 - 60 balls and in that regard AB is more appealing and stands out more.
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But your skillful players like AB, Dilshan, SteveSmith, BMac etc tend to struggle agaisnt sustained good quality bowling and can't score big against them often. That's why for example I've shown that AB has never had a truly dominant year like a Sanga, Amla or Ponting. Only true greats can achieve that consistently. So we can enjoy these guys in th emodern context but not overstate their abilities too much.

Some would be surprised that I didn't put Warner in that category, but a fair examination shows that he's improved&matured into a class act for all seasons. Smith has the time to change and he's shown glimpses but I'll wait and see.

I think the new AB o fth elast few months is not an improvement but a regression. When he went through a very bad patch of form in all formats a couple of years ago, then recoverd, that was the AB played like Kohli and didn't overdo things. Now when the pressure is on and he's up against goo dbowling he can't survive batting quality like Sanga&Amla. He almost always resorts to high-risk counter-attacking to get himself out of it and scoer runs, not quality sustained batting. even you have to agree with that observation. No?
 
sand_man said:
OT James Small was a thug of note in his rugby playing days!! He dished out abuse to all and sundry when playing against them! I recall a provincial game where he was all over Danie Gerber! Found it hard to believe how this snot nosed brat appeared to be gesturing and hurling abuse towards a legend of the game!
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I actually had a number of posters & cards of James Small and gave away quite a few over time(long before this article was published though). Some things you read an dthey are disappointing, but I suppose you focus on the man's art rather than personality (I still rate Graeme Smith higher than most as a batsman, even though he oversaw "bad treatment" of some players). Lets leave rugby out. Irrelevant reference.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
It'll be a while before we play West Indies again.:D

You forget that AB doesn't plunder attacks all the time. We seen that several times under various situations in all formats. If he could then he wouldn't fail when Amla fails remember? He can be easily tied down across all formats when there's pressure. The only guys who play freely all the time under all circumstances and hardly ever grind are Amla, Sanga, Warner&Kohli. It' no coincidence that the runs they score reflect the amout of time they spend at the crease.

This is a top top point that you made:
But your skillful players like AB, Dilshan, SteveSmith, BMac etc tend to struggle agaisnt sustained good quality bowling and can't score big against them often. That's why for example I've shown that AB has never had a truly dominant year like a Sanga, Amla or Ponting. Only true greats can achieve that consistently. So we can enjoy these guys in th emodern context but not overstate their abilities too much.

Some would be surprised that I didn't put Warner in that category, but a fair examination shows that he's improved&matured into a class act for all seasons. Smith has the time to change and he's shown glimpses but I'll wait and see.

I think the new AB o fth elast few months is not an improvement but a regression. When he went through a very bad patch of form in all formats a couple of years ago, then recoverd, that was the AB played like Kohli and didn't overdo things. Now when the pressure is on and he's up against goo dbowling he can't survive batting quality like Sanga&Amla. He almost always resorts to high-risk counter-attacking to get himself out of it and scoer runs, not quality sustained batting. even you have to agree with that observation. No?
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His ODI average against Australia is 62.57 (23 innings), 61.18 against Pakistan (29 innings), 56.00 against New Zealand (16 innings), 54.00 against Sri Lanka (16 innings) and 46.89 against India (22 innings). Hardly the sign of a batsman that struggles against better sides. And demolishing a weal opponent is exactly what a good sportsman does. ''Oh, it was the Windies''. Well yes it was and he gave them a right thump, as a quality batsman should.

In tests he averages 48 against the Aussies (37 Inn), 45 against England (27 Inn) and 41 against India (22 Inn). Again, no mug.

It is false to say he can't play against top teams.

And yes, he isn't the type of player that will face 130 balls accumulating 150 runs in an ODI. That player is Amla. AB is the one that will get you 100-runs in 60 balls and give your innings the spurt it needed. Amla starts slow, maybe a run a ball for his first 30 - 50 runs before playing with a little more freedom. AB starts fast and finishes even faster.

Fact is you need both types of player in the modern game to win. You need the one that can persist for 30 - 35 overs and another that can come in and give your innings a kick. Amla getting 150 at a SR of 85 - 100 isn't necessarily a guaranteed win. You need to make sure others can come in and work off of him. Likewise ABs 77 off 58 wasn't enough to beat Pakistan because the top-3 never built a good platform.
 
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Kallis' bowling ability gives him a trump card as well. He has to be top-10 and the greatest All-Rounder the game has ever seen.
 
Badprop_za said:
True that. I don't think people always appreciate the value he added to the team. Especially considering the balance of the team set-up.
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Indeed. It's evident currently how important that is. It always allowed us to bat all the way down to 8, as opposed to 7 now, and then you had Shaun Pollock coming in at 9 adding even more balance, because he could certainly bat.

If we're only talking batsmen, Amla could easily surpass him as our best ever in ODIs, but all-round cricketer, gonna be a tall order that.
 
Badprop_za said:
Side note, but interesting read. http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/846325/still-the-king

That article is on ODIs. I can guarantee that when Amla calls it a day on his career he will be in the top 5. I regard him in the top 10 already.
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This one's interesting too. http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/794565.html :D

In this format I think he'll not only be top 5, he'll be at the very top!

Obviously he hasn't even played 170 ODIs so it would be unfair to label him best yet, considering Sir Viv played 167, but he'll get there and they'll be enough daylight between the two to makeup for the significantly weaker bowling and advantageous equipment+rules.
 
Badprop_za said:
True that. I don't think people always appreciate the value he added to the team. Especially considering the balance of the team set-up.
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The problem with Kallis is that his bowling stopped being truly effective many years ago, and his career as a batsmen, which was well set to see him end ranked as a much lesser mortal than Ponting, Lara, Sachin, Dravid&Chanderpaul, was literally picked up by Amla.

Amla, the secret of Kallis' prolific run? http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-south-africa-2012/content/story/590746.html
Jacques Kallis has shifted a gear since scoring his first double-century in December 2010. A key factor for this seems to be the presence of Hashim Amla

While there may not be an exact science to identify what brought about Kallis' recent form , two things stand out as clear motivating factors which weren't there in the past. He is either spurred on by team situations which call for his leadership, or by the confidence of the man at the other end of the wicket. Most often that person is Hashim Amla, and he has played a telling role in Kallis' form.

Once Amla had planted roots into the No.3 spot, Kallis started to show more flamboyance a bit more regularly.Kallis' centuries are almost perfectly split into two halves: those which came before Amla arrived, and those that were scored after. Kallis played for 11 years before Amla featured in the team and scored 23 centuries in that period. Since Amla cemented his place in the South African side, in 2006, Kallis has scored 21 Test tons.

Amla's presence has contributed to the overall stability of South Africa's line-up. With Smith a long-time opener and De Villiers also building towards a decade as an international cricketer, South Africa's line-up has taken on a familiarly dependable shape.
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21 centuries in 6 years because of Amla.:D
 
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