Hetzner apologizes for downtime

Hi guys,

I've been following this thread with no intention of getting involved, but have reached the point of annoyance, as we all no doubt do while reading some of the more "evocative" posters in here ;-), that forces my hand.

I appreciate frustration with bad service, and I agree that South Africans, as a whole, are yet to learn to stand up for their rights and demand what they are paying for, but when the facts are distorted and ill informed ppl pass themselves off as know-it-alls, that needs to be checked at the door.

We seem to have drifted off the topic in this thread, so just to get things back on track: Hetzner downtime. While I was not directly affected by this, I happen to know a little about it. I have an acquaintance at Hetzner (I would not go so far as to say a friend) and to pull together in one post some of the facts that have been correctly contributed in this thread:

- the downtime was unavoidable, the building-wide diesel generator on which they buy capacity was excluded from them during an unannounced maintenance by the building management
- the sysadmins were all at the DC as soon as they could be
- staff were called in to start contacting dedicated server clients within hours, this IS good service no matter how you spin it, ESPECIALLY in SA
- all client were mailed re this hours later so that when they got to their mail in the morning they would know, again good service
- only Cape Town was affected, Johannesburg and Germany were not
- they do own and operate their own backup generators (beyond UPS) in Johannesburg and Germany, Cape Town uses a large capacity shared generator (so the claims are not false, no ASA needed)
- The UPS times seem low when quoted out of context, but they would explain to you why it is so if you asked, the backup generator would usually kick in within seconds
- the price, performance and service balance is what it's about, not nuclear proof datacentres, they're open about this. SME market!

Trust me, they're not happy about the downtime. They apologised, explained and they are taking steps to prevent it happening again. That is more than you can say for many outfits out there. ASK THEM, they're not hiding away from responsibility. I can't see how they could have done more, quicker, than what was done. I don't make a living managing the logistics of a hosting environment, but I can't see how they could have done more sooner. I think many clients appreciated the apology and the email, and that the intention is right. That it happened at all is unfortunate. But how ppl deal with an issue is a greater show of their metal.

It simply annoys me when people make false claims, without any intelligent reasoning or reference. Some of the analogies made by the critics are simply astoundingly ridiculous.

Henkk78 and AcidRazor have disappointed me. Their facts are wrong, they twist other ppl's words, and quite frankly, I wouldn't do business with the companies in which they are pivotal - maturity, wisdom and respect seem to disappear at times. Henkk78 gets sensational and calls for lawyers and the ASA, when he doesn't have his facts straight, while AcidRazor claims ridiculous financial stats, and self-importance. The following posts may go some way to show what credibility should be attached to such statements. These are not from a decision maker, level-headed, industry heavy-hitter as he would want us to believe. Read them and draw your own picture.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=41527
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=39649
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=36775

Don't even get me started on bb_matt. :-)

So, take the facts I've mentioned re the downtime, verify if you choose, but please guys, when some of the posters here get hot and bothered and start flamewars for no good reason, take a step back and look at who is speaking. Respect should be earned, not demanded by ppl who make wild claims. That's my approach anyway. You're entitled to your opinion.

Just my 2c.

Thanks for your time. ;-)
 
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=41527
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=39649
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=36775
Click to expand...

Funny enough, those posts I made was all in Off Topic. Do all "decision making level-headed industry heavy-hitters" have no personality or thoughts of their own? (I'm sure if you sift through everything you'll find rpm participating in off topic threads as well, does he deserve more credibility for some reason than I?)

All those references you made to posts I did was, how I can say, irrelevant at the topic at hand.

It simply annoys me when people make false claims, without any intelligent reasoning or reference. Some of the analogies made by the critics are simply astoundingly ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Did you decide to join us in posting these links?

First off, a shared diesel generator is fine, but would a hosting company seriously not have measures in place with the management of the building to be notified of any such downtime? No really... answer my question. Our office building is shared by 3 different companies. The diesel generator and UPS system was our proposal and everybody pitches in the costs. When something needs to go down for maintenence, it is scheduled and all relevant companies affected (even if its during a weekend) gets notified of the downtime a week beforehand. This is not because the people doing the maintanence feels NICE enough to let the people know about the downtime (or possibility thereof) its because it is stipulated in the CONTRACT that they HAVE to.

Now that I think about your post again... I'm offended by the links you posted... grow up. Smell the air and realise that people need someplace to go to to do whatever they want and post whatever they want, not all the time being professional and/or representing any kind of company entity.
 
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hip3cround said:
Henkk78 and AcidRazor have disappointed me. Their facts are wrong, they twist other ppl's words, and quite frankly, I wouldn't do business with the companies in which they are pivotal - maturity, wisdom and respect seem to disappear at times. Henkk78 gets sensational and calls for lawyers and the ASA, when he doesn't have his facts straight, ...
Click to expand...

hip3cround,

I'm really sorry if I have 'disappointed' you by demanding excellent service from Hetzner.

I acknowledge what you are saying regarding the cause of Hetzner's problems, and I've spoken with them at length about them. I also acknowledge the fact that they tried their best post-crisis to contact folks hosting with them.

However, I never compare local companies with other companies that are worse than them. In the same way, in my own business I always strive for excellence in a global playing field, even though I know we are miles ahead of local competitors.

I would really appreciate an elucidation on your allegation of me making false claims. As you appear to be offended by false claims being made, you'd appreciate the fact that I feel offended/perplexed by what I believe are YOUR false claims.

What false claims did I make?

Regarding my ASA complaint. I will inform Hetzner of my intent, and give them a chance to respond. Hetzner advertises a Diesel Generator as part of their package, over which they have no control.

Hetzner was NOT EVEN informed of scheduled maintenance taking place on the Diesel Generator.

It's simply not ethical to give the impression of having a critical component when
A) You don't have control over this component, and
B) This lack of control can cause outages, rather than prevent it

Once again, at the end of the day, it has nothing to do with Hetzner being better than the other guys, it comes down to the fact that we're paying a first-rate price, but that Hetzner has been getting away with cutting corners.

hip3cround, I find your tone amusing and for the most part of your post, I took your opinion quite seriously and even thought you were adding value to the debate, regardless of whether I agree with you. You were spot-on about how things went down at Hetzner and the fact that they did try to respond to the crisis, even though it could have been prevented in the first place.

However, you lost my respect when you tried your low-blow tactics pointing out AcidRaZor's previous 'OFF-TOPIC' posts.

Couldn't stop yourself from starting up your flamethrower, eh?
 
Henkk78, on you last point: fair comment. Perhaps I should not have done that. I don't wish to claim, as AcidRazor has suggested, that diversifying interest and having life outside IT is in any way unhealthy. Quite the opposite. My aim was to illustrate the tone, wording and expressions expressed there were not consistent with someone of the stature to be in charge of a setup that could be liable for a R2.5m loss in two hours. The point may not have been taken, and so perhaps that was not the best course. I can't undo that.

However, if you have spoken to Hetzner at length I continue to be surprised at the harsh criticism. Reluctantly I must agree ;-) with your "comparisons on a level playing field" (I'm paraphrasing, not quoting) - indeed, where do we strive if we don't expose ourselves to the ultimate competition. And if I was an affected client perhaps I too would be reacting as you (after the 2nd outage) - but I also feel as if they are being made to pay (in accountability and responsibility) for the sins of the South African service industry at large, which is poor. You'll get no contradiction from me to what you, AcidRazor or bb_matt have said in that regard.

No flamewar intended.
 
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