Sorry if it gives the wrong impression yes, there were three abducted and killed by terrorists after being abducted. Only GIlad Shalit has not been returned of those 3.
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Hezbollah hands over bodies
- Thread starter Just_Ice
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marine1
Honorary Master
Please show me an Arab that wants peace and publicly says so, that to me indicates they are mainly fundamentalists. I would like to see them publicly do something instead of voting in animals like Hamas. Remember the majority voted them in so......
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
My username has nothing to do with it.
Next time you have a point to make, please provide facts to back it up. It seems that you have a position which you cannot justify. The proof of this is in the fact that not a single one of your commentaries have any validity.
You have not made a single valid point.
I don't like sounding arrogant, but in this case you have delusions of grandeur if you think Islam deserves indemnity from criticism.
Since when can we not criticize religion? Especially when it is the cause of so much heart-ache.
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
You have made a good point.
But you cannot argue that religion has not been behind most if not all of the terrorism happening in the middle east.
Show me one Quraanic verse or even a hadith that tell us muslim to bomb anything that it forbids ...
Burning flags hurts no one, what you on about such a small thing ?
and if its a big problem for you, show me one Quraanic Verse or hadith that tells us to burn flags.
The person who created those cartoon, (if im not mistaken)died a horrific death anyway,without any muslim interference. He got what he deserved. which Islamic leaders called for this persons head ?
And tell me which Quraanic verse or hadith tells us to behead anyone who insults the religion. just a quick off-topic note, the Shias insult the most beloved companions of the Prophet (PBUH), and our Prophet (PBUH) has instructed us in Hadith to never even consider insulting them. So why have the Sunni muslims not declared war on the Shias ? Get me ?
What we S.African muslims (and also the muslims of the world) did because of these cartoons was very simple, we boycott'ed all Danish products, we hurt them we it hurts most, without violence. [/quote]
by your standards, you believe all that BS ? i guess i was wrong when i say you are intelligent ...
Al Qaeda are a bunch of losers, and the Quraan and hadith strictly forbids their violent behaviour.
again, all BS. These people are time bombs ready to be activated, and the US knew exactly how to do it. and they succeeded. They are mentally-ill and uneducated. They are the same people like our Africans. No mentallity.
Look at the Zuma supporters, ready to die or kill for him.
Burning flags is symbolic.. Its a threat.. Next its people..
A cartoon doesn't hurt anyone that doesn't WANT TO TAKE OFFENCE..
Got what he deserved? The job of an artist/journo is to be controversial.. To attack the hang ups of society, religion and everything else, to get people to think, react, EVOLVE. If you think a cartoon validates a horrific death, then there is something wrong with you.
Everyone and everything is open to criticism.. Especially governments, and especially religions..
It keeps them in line.. It keeps them from blatantly using people and getting away with it. It forces them to play nice.
And people should get used to it.. cause the harder you fight, the more the artists will enjoy it ^_^
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So then you prefer us to go bombing things ? By burning flags, it allows us to show how hurt we feel. our Prophet is our life, and that cartoonist knew exactly what he was doing. And because he knew what an uproar he will create, he got what was coming to him. I have no sympathy for people who intentionally cause physical/mental harm to the next 'HUMAN BEING'. In fact, it hurts us muslims too when people make fun of Jesus, as he 'is' significant to all religions (except hindu's). Oh yes Hindu's, the Quraan instructs us not to associate with idol worshippers,they are not 'people of the book' (jews,christians,muslims) so why wont the Islamic extremists go bombing temples etc. ?
Islam is in for a bumpy ride as it collides with freedom of speech. If you think a cartoon is the worst artists can do, then I think you should read up on manson and what he does to offend christianity in a country where almost everyone is a christian. The only thing artists are scared of is being conservative..
Islam collides with freedom of speech ? C'mon dont come with stupid excuses just because you have 'hate' in you for my religion, and would like to see it destroyed. Insulting someone (anyone) doesnt show freedom of speech, it shows that you looking for attention.
We are unfortunate that this world has so many uneducated,uncivilised muslims. They fight for one thing but are hypocrites and neglect the most important teachings. End of the day i dont blame you guys for thinking the way you do.
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
1.) We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
2.) Burning a flag has never been a 'small thing'. It is a declaration of war. So you condone murder... just because of a god damn cartoon? You are thus an beautiful example of your intolerant religion.
"War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not." 2:216
3.) "If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant." 4:91
"Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them." 4:89
"We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151 "
4.) Sounds like you are dodging the topic a bit
5.) That is what you would like to believe. In fact terrorism is very wide spread in the Islamic community.
Some Islamic Terrorist Groups:
So I wouldn't put it squarly on Al Qaeda
Maybe it's something else... maybe THE RELIGION ?!6.) They are time bombs ready to explode because they have been indoctrinated by Islam. Islam has built the time bomb... any small thing like a cartoon can set it off
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
1.) We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
2.) Burning a flag has never been a 'small thing'. It is a declaration of war. So you condone murder... just because of a god damn cartoon? You are thus an beautiful example of your intolerant religion.
"War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not." 2:216
3.) "If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant." 4:91
"Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them." 4:89
"We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151 "
4.) Sounds like you are dodging the topic a bit
5.) That is what you would like to believe. In fact terrorism is very wide spread in the Islamic community.
Some Islamic Terrorist Groups:
So I wouldn't put it squarly on Al Qaeda
6.) They are time bombs ready to explode because they have been indoctrinated by Islam. Islam has built the time bomb... any small thing like a cartoon can set it off
those verses you quoted, you dont even know its origin and meaning. Every verse in the Quraan relates to a specific incident. only the wise and people with authority are allowed to translate, but since you want to act so clever (and forward) why dont you quote verses that say muslims are not alllowed to kill, are not even allowed to think ill of anyone. Quote verses that command us to be kind to the next person, even though me might be of another religion.
I would have given you the story/stories behind those quotes, but you need to link me to your source(s) so i can see if there is any conflicts/misinterpretations to begin with.
End of the day, you think Islam promotes terror, as long as theres those (made up ) groups, theres no point debating with you concerning this. Remember, more and more people are converting to Islam, it is a growing religion . . .
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
1.) I think they are pretty clear without interpretation thanks
2.) Wise men with degrees? Authority over what? How about you tell me who you are referring to...
3.) What the hell is the point? Clearly your Muslim brethren are only taking the ones I quoted seriously. They are flying into buildings and blowing themselves up outside orphanages.
4.) Source: Quran
I have one if you wanna borrow it.... its laying next to my bacon sandwich... it has some beer spilled on it. Hope you don't kill me.5.) I have no evidence to the contrary. I think my position is pretty solid.
6.) Tons of people smoke, eat fatty foods, have sex without a condom and much more... everyday. Doesn't mean it is healthy to do any of it though
You clearly know nothing about your own Quran/Hadith.
I bet you even think it was written by God aswell ey
[For the mod reading this post: This post has been written only as a satirical piece, criticizing Islam. Please do not take it for anything more than me making a point. I hope this does not become another Danish cartoon incident. I am only exercising my freedom of speech. At no point was this hate speech. Just freedom of expression.]
marine1
Honorary Master
I refer you to : www.thereligionofpeace.com
I respect the fact that you personally strive to live a wholesome peaceful life, but as you point out, the world can only build their opinions of this religion based on the actions and teachings of its leaders and followers.
Look at the UK - There is a number of prominent Muslim clerics in prison for inciting hatred and violence, and these clerics enjoyed a very large following, while abusing the state benefits.
I'm sure you know the ones I'm referring to - Abu Hamza, etc.
Also note the top Muslim imam in Australia and his comments refering to rape victims as uncovered meat and brought the rape upon themselves - if this is not the thinking of the general Muslim population in Aus, then why didn't they give him the boot - he remains the top imam in Aus, so we must assume that Muslims in general believe that western girls and woman are sluts and deserve to be raped by young Muslim gangs.
There you go again, taking my words as a personal attack..
The problem here, is differing levels of morality, and the differing levels of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech CAN be a bit of a pain in the arse, but you see, if you don't agree with someone else saying what they want, then you can't open your mouth either, thats how it works. I understand Islam is more conservative with regards to morality. We too were in the same position at one point. We are not that different. I think the differing levels are mainly due to geographical seperation, and perhaps state and religion ties in the middle east which have been cast off in the westernised world.
If we were all living next door to eachother, Id argue that our morality would be on very similar levels. You judge our ways as immoral, you judge freedom of speech as immoral, but of course, that is no different to when we judge conservative morality as "old" or a "failed concept". The problem here is that Islam is not used to criticism, and we think criticism is healthy. Other religions tolerate these things because they really have no choice, due to popular demand, freedom of speech beat them all. Christianity, catholicism, judaism.. They have alot of critics. That is just how we do things in the west. You take it as a personal attack, but it isn't. Yes those people want to get a rise out of you, and you play right into their hand.. Other religions have learned to take criticism, learned to ignore things.. They still do protest when someone goes "too far'. The problem is the definition of "too far" is very different between the 2 worlds. They need to balance out and synch together.
no no, dont get me wrong, im not trying to imply that you attacking 'me'. But having read your post, i clearly understand your point of view. My problem is that it is not fair to blame the religion for any of this. Even if people die in the name of religion (suicide bombers), you cant conclude that Islam allows such actions. Any person who commits suicide goes staright to hell, no questions asked, no judgement day for this person. Do you understand this now ? So these suicide bombers and extremist are contradiciting themselves.
In general, if a person does not have knowledge of something, and maybe knows a little, he will make ignorant decisions right ?
I will conclude by saying that Islam teaches us peace,harmony,respect,patience etc. (like other religions do) and if muslims dont go according to these teachings, then they are only muslim by name, not heart.
Yes I understand.
There are extremists in every religion. Religion is a powerful thing. People have continued throughout history to try to use it for their own ends. As far as I know we were the ones who tried to wipe Islam out first via the crusades, and Im glad we failed.
I can understand how easy it would be for Muslims to feel attacked and segregated, especially when they are being lumped into the same category as the extremists who are clearly hypocritical. I'd hate to be categorized as a nazi if I was a white German. Doesn't make sense. Bush hasn't helped, and now people are being judged based on propoganda. I wish people would be smart enuf not to buy into it, but amazingly they do. They believe it either because they want it to be true, or because they are afraid it might be true. I think the latter is more popular. But of course there are always a few in the first category, wanting to fight.
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
Most Muslims are fundamentalists. They believe the literal word of the Quran. The Quran... most of the time promotes a message of intolerance. Islam reeks of anti-west sentiment. The Quran offers nothing but intolerance and superstitious mambo jumbo. It was written to seduce and to incite fear at the same time. Nothing in the Quran can be taken seriously. In fact I think we should ban the Bible, The Torah and the Quran/Hadith. Allowing people to believe this type of crap is poisonous.
Pixie22 has illustrated a picture of the world which is not entirely correct. She argues that criticism of Islam is something that cannot be universally applied... the comparison is made to Nazi's. This is not only a terrible comparison but also fundamentally ignores the reality of the situation.
We condemn Nazi's because of their ideas about the world. They hate Jews and want to kill all of them and as a consequence we condemn all Nazi's even if they have not killed anyone. The ideology is what people are acting out against. Now for Islam, all Muslims share the same holy books. They differ in interpretation but in many sections the Quran is very clear about what Muslims should kill. Catch21 might be in a community where those sections are not ever even raised at Mosque... but the Quran still contains these hateful and intolerant messages. Elsewhere in the world these very passages are animating terrorists into flying themselves into buildings.
Like any religious person, I don't think Catch21 has perspective enough to see what his religion truly is. I never did when I was a Christian and my grandfather certainly did not when he himself was a Muslim.
Times change and we must all come to terms with the idea that we are in a war of ideologies. Islam holds a very evil doctrine as holy text.
Let's just all live in peace, forget all the crazy religions with the idiots. After all we all know better than that.
Pixie22 has illustrated a picture of the world which is not entirely correct. She argues that criticism of Islam is something that cannot be universally applied... the comparison is made to Nazi's. This is not only a terrible comparison but also fundamentally ignores the reality of the situation.
We condemn Nazi's because of their ideas about the world. They hate Jews and want to kill all of them and as a consequence we condemn all Nazi's even if they have not killed anyone. The ideology is what people are acting out against. Now for Islam, all Muslims share the same holy books. They differ in interpretation but in many sections the Quran is very clear about what Muslims should kill. Catch21 might be in a community where those sections are not ever even raised at Mosque... but the Quran still contains these hateful and intolerant messages. Elsewhere in the world these very passages are animating terrorists into flying themselves into buildings.
Like any religious person, I don't think Catch21 has perspective enough to see what his religion truly is. I never did when I was a Christian and my grandfather certainly did not when he himself was a Muslim.
Times change and we must all come to terms with the idea that we are in a war of ideologies. Islam holds a very evil doctrine as holy text.
Let's just all live in peace, forget all the crazy religions with the idiots. After all we all know better than that.
nauseous_monkey
Expert Member
Catch... have you forgotten about our discussion we were having?