Home Automation - Smartkit

[Dee96]

Ok so I have made a call to buy a few Sonoff basics.

Luckily my light switches have a neutral cable so this will work but I have a few queries.

Apologies in advance, I am green to this and there's a lot of conflicting info online

1) Why should I flash the device with Tasmota? Is it mainly Chinese privacy concerns?

2) What is the easiest method to flash Tasmota, preferably OTA. There's tons of videos but each have a different way of doing it.

3) What android app are you using, I read Yeti is good?

4) I want to use voice control with my android phone and Google assistant, will Yeti work?

5) The basic will be hidden behind the light Switch. I did consider the sonoff T1 but it's too pricey so I am going to stick with the basic. If the WiFi internet access is down but the WiFi still works, does Yeti have a LAN mode?

6) if I set a daily timer, is the timer stored in the actual Sonoff basic. ie: if my phone is dead, will the timer still execute

Thanks in advance and please let me know if you can help with any part of the above

 

[SAguy]

Ok so I have made a call to buy a few Sonoff basics.

Luckily my light switches have a neutral cable so this will work but I have a few queries.

Apologies in advance, I am green to this and there's a lot of conflicting info online

1) Why should I flash the device with Tasmota? Is it mainly Chinese privacy concerns?

2) What is the easiest method to flash Tasmota, preferably OTA. There's tons of videos but each have a different way of doing it.

3) What android app are you using, I read Yeti is good?

4) I want to use voice control with my android phone and Google assistant, will Yeti work?

5) The basic will be hidden behind the light Switch. I did consider the sonoff T1 but it's too pricey so I am going to stick with the basic. If the WiFi internet access is down but the WiFi still works, does Yeti have a LAN mode?

6) if I set a daily timer, is the timer stored in the actual Sonoff basic. ie: if my phone is dead, will the timer still execute

Thanks in advance and please let me know if you can help with any part of the above

I'm also relatively new, but here are my thoughts:

1. A few reasons, privacy is one. Also, with the Sonoff Ewelink firmware, if the Chinese servers are down you have no control over your devices and you must always have an internet connection. Once you get even more involved and excited with the options of home automation you'll find that tasmota will get you a lot further.

2. You can't flash the basics OTA anymore, I think you could with older ewelink firmware. If you buy from Smartkit though they will flash it for you at a small extra cost.

3. You'll probably find that most have a small pc or raspberry pi running home assistant, which becomes a central hub for all your devices to communicate to. You then create web dashboards that you view on your mobile devices, all still local to your network. If you're not ready to take that leap then Yeti is probably your best bet.

4. Not sure, since the Google Api is public and not on your network I don't think Yeti will work with Google Home. Home Assistant does work with Google Api's with some extra configuration.

5. Yeti will work if internet is down since it connects to private IPs of your tasmota devices. I don't think Yeti will even work over the internet if you're not home unless you have a vpn or are doing a lot of forwarding on your router - but I may he wrong I don't use Yeti.

6. You can set the timers in Tasmota itself, which is what I do for some critical stuff must in case my Home Assistant server is down.

I may be wrong on some of the above, others are free to add/correct.

 

[ebendl]

Ok so I have made a call to buy a few Sonoff basics.

Luckily my light switches have a neutral cable so this will work but I have a few queries.

Apologies in advance, I am green to this and there's a lot of conflicting info online

1) Why should I flash the device with Tasmota? Is it mainly Chinese privacy concerns?

2) What is the easiest method to flash Tasmota, preferably OTA. There's tons of videos but each have a different way of doing it.

3) What android app are you using, I read Yeti is good?

4) I want to use voice control with my android phone and Google assistant, will Yeti work?

5) The basic will be hidden behind the light Switch. I did consider the sonoff T1 but it's too pricey so I am going to stick with the basic. If the WiFi internet access is down but the WiFi still works, does Yeti have a LAN mode?

6) if I set a daily timer, is the timer stored in the actual Sonoff basic. ie: if my phone is dead, will the timer still execute

Thanks in advance and please let me know if you can help with any part of the above

I'd say most people who flash to Tasmota are running some sort of home automation software. Using Tasmota allows you to much easier control the device locally (typically over MQTT or some sort of other local protocol).

Yes there are some privacy concerns too, but I can't say I've read anything about the original Sonoff firmware.

Another concern is the closing down of cloud services that support these devices, or changes in terms and conditions. E.g. Lightify: https://www.techhive.com/article/35...ers-for-lightify-smart-bulbs-next-august.html or Wink announcing that their free services will now cost $5 a month: https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/6/21249950/smart-home-platform-wink-monthly-subscription

With local control your devices should work forever. Home Assistant's founder has good philosophies around this: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/01/19/perfect-home-automation/

Any case, I would say if you're not going to run some sort of central home automation software, I'm not sure if you'll gain much by flashing to Tasmota. Yes, you can set up timers on Tasmota itself that should work without an internet connection, and while I don't know Yeti it looks like it is all controlled from your phone (except automations, which are the "Pro" version and probably uses a cloud service?). But you can do all of this with the standard firmware too.

 

[ebendl]

Thanks. I know it should work but lots of cases in ZA on the 16A sonoff switches burning with a 3kw geyser.

If this switch burns out or melts, the SO will kill my home automation dream so I think putting a contactor us safer....

I honestly do not trust the Sonoffs too much. I wouldn't try and run more than 50% the rated capacity. My first POW made arcing and I had to redo the solder tracks! I also saw where it had started warping the plastic a bit -- there must have been some heat there...

 

[SAguy]

Which Sonoffs have the DIY mode for OTA flashing... Just the mini and basic r3?

 

[Steamy Tom]

Which Sonoffs have the DIY mode for OTA flashing... Just the mini and basic r3?

don't limit yourself bro

 

[SAguy]

don't limit yourself bro

I know I know...
Need to get the stuff and start flashing myself.

I'm actually liking the look of the 4ch pro r2 as well, only really looked at it for the first time now.
Should be able to flash it with Tasmota, and then either use it to pulse for a second - in which case it acts the same as a Sherlo remote receiver would I imagine? Means I could use it to trigger alarm inputs or gates right

Or I could use it for a few irrigation solenoids in latching mode

 

[SauRoNZA]

1) Why should I flash the device with Tasmota? Is it mainly Chinese privacy concerns?

Primarily for additional features most importantly being MQTT to use it with almost any home automation system and not be restricted to the Sonoff App any longer.

Also fully offline use.

Of course you could do a Shelly instead which has MQTT out of the box.

MQTT only really matters if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole and not want all off the shelf solutions.

2) What is the easiest method to flash Tasmota, preferably OTA. There's tons of videos but each have a different way of doing it.

To be honest and you won’t believe it but flashing it directly with an FTDI adaptor is the easiest.

OTA is really a lot of work and jumping through hoops and could be taken away at any moment or ever changing.

Again Shelly are happy to have you change their devices to Tasmota and make it simple. But they also offer features that make it unnecessary.

5) The basic will be hidden behind the light Switch. I did consider the sonoff T1 but it's too pricey so I am going to stick with the basic. If the WiFi internet access is down but the WiFi still works, does Yeti have a LAN mode?

Wrong tool for the job. You want a Sonoff Mini for that.

6) if I set a daily timer, is the timer stored in the actual Sonoff basic. ie: if my phone is dead, will the timer still execute

For Tasmota it is, not sure about the original firmware, never used it more than five minutes.

****

Personally I wouldn’t put anything in my wall that wasn’t more open and therefore Tasmota from the start if you go Sonoff makes more sense.

I can almost guarantee you’ll want to change it later and then it will be too much work.

Tasmota gives you future proofing.

 

[AntennaMan]

Thanks. I know it should work but lots of cases in ZA on the 16A sonoff switches burning with a 3kw geyser.

If this switch burns out or melts, the SO will kill my home automation dream so I think putting a contactor us safer....

Good call. I've said it before in this thread, using the Sonoff directly on the geyser opens you up for a disaster.

There is no de-rating information available, and 16A is too close to the limit.

Rather get a Hager 20A contactor and control that with the Sonoff.

 

[SAguy]

Good call. I've said it before in this thread, using the Sonoff directly on the geyser opens you up for a disaster.

There is no de-rating information available, and 16A is too close to the limit.

Rather get a Hager 20A contactor and control that with the Sonoff.

Catching the rear end of this convo, but that would allow on/off of the geyser but no power monitoring with a POW correct?

 

[Tinuva]

Catching the rear end of this convo, but that would allow on/off of the geyser but no power monitoring with a POW correct?

Correct. But the Shelly EM will allow you to do monitoring with a contactor.

 

[Steamy Tom]

how do you monitor when the power doesn't flow through it?

 

[Steamy Tom]

I know I know...
Need to get the stuff and start flashing myself.

I'm actually liking the look of the 4ch pro r2 as well, only really looked at it for the first time now.
Should be able to flash it with Tasmota, and then either use it to pulse for a second - in which case it acts the same as a Sherlo remote receiver would I imagine? Means I could use it to trigger alarm inputs or gates right

Or I could use it for a few irrigation solenoids in latching mode

i am sure it would work much like a sv, just with more channels

 

[Düber]

how do you monitor when the power doesn't flow through it?

It has those transformer type sensors, can do 120A and switch a contactor. Looks very useful.

 

[ebendl]

It has those transformer type sensors, can do 120A and switch a contactor. Looks very useful.

View attachment 838087

This is right. What I actually also discovered -- to really be able to measure power (including apparent power, reactive power and to calculate the power factor) you need to be able to measure the voltage and the current multiple times per second, then do some calculations on it.

The POW and Shelly PM do this because they use a separate chip that measures both, calculates both and sends the information to the microprocessor. It can do this because all of the current flows through the device. But this of course means current limits.

So if you only had a CT clamp, then you can only measure current. This means that you have to estimate the voltage (say 230v) and then you can only really measure a resistive load, since there's no reactive power component and W = V (estimate) x I (measured). So in other words, with only a CT clamp, you can only measure power on your geyser / stove / oven and even then it's a bit of an estimate since you are estimating V.

The EM, however, measures the voltage in the EM's body itself, and then measures the current for 2 different circuits using the CT clamp. And then of course it has the relay so that you can switch a contactor on/off. That's why you should be able to get a more accurate reading with power factors, so you should be able to measure other circuits (light lightning with LEDs, motor circuits such as swimming pools or your main house' feed if you wish which is of course a mixture of the lot).

Interestingly enough, the Shelly PM didn't have the space on the board to actually send across all the measurements from the power measuring chip to the mcu. So Tasmota on a PM only reports power and energy today/yesterday/overall and doesn't return voltage, current, apparent/reactive power nor the power factor.

Sonoff POW 1/2, Ultralink Plug / BNeta plug:



Shelly PM

 

[Dee96]

I'm also relatively new, but here are my thoughts:

1. A few reasons, privacy is one. Also, with the Sonoff Ewelink firmware, if the Chinese servers are down you have no control over your devices and you must always have an internet connection. Once you get even more involved and excited with the options of home automation you'll find that tasmota will get you a lot further.

2. You can't flash the basics OTA anymore, I think you could with older ewelink firmware. If you buy from Smartkit though they will flash it for you at a small extra cost.

3. You'll probably find that most have a small pc or raspberry pi running home assistant, which becomes a central hub for all your devices to communicate to. You then create web dashboards that you view on your mobile devices, all still local to your network. If you're not ready to take that leap then Yeti is probably your best bet.

4. Not sure, since the Google Api is public and not on your network I don't think Yeti will work with Google Home. Home Assistant does work with Google Api's with some extra configuration.

5. Yeti will work if internet is down since it connects to private IPs of your tasmota devices. I don't think Yeti will even work over the internet if you're not home unless you have a vpn or are doing a lot of forwarding on your router - but I may he wrong I don't use Yeti.

6. You can set the timers in Tasmota itself, which is what I do for some critical stuff must in case my Home Assistant server is down.

I may be wrong on some of the above, others are free to add/correct.

1. Hmm this really is a rabbit-hole but i am going to take the leap. I will try Tasmota.

2. Will look into flashing.

3. I have a PI 3B sitting around so guess thats the next stage.

4. Time to take the plunge and buy one and try.

5. I want to view the status of the devices from work so I need to access it from the internet.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Dee96]

I'd say most people who flash to Tasmota are running some sort of home automation software. Using Tasmota allows you to much easier control the device locally (typically over MQTT or some sort of other local protocol).

Yes there are some privacy concerns too, but I can't say I've read anything about the original Sonoff firmware.

Another concern is the closing down of cloud services that support these devices, or changes in terms and conditions. E.g. Lightify: https://www.techhive.com/article/35...ers-for-lightify-smart-bulbs-next-august.html or Wink announcing that their free services will now cost $5 a month: https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/6/21249950/smart-home-platform-wink-monthly-subscription

With local control your devices should work forever. Home Assistant's founder has good philosophies around this: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/01/19/perfect-home-automation/

Any case, I would say if you're not going to run some sort of central home automation software, I'm not sure if you'll gain much by flashing to Tasmota. Yes, you can set up timers on Tasmota itself that should work without an internet connection, and while I don't know Yeti it looks like it is all controlled from your phone (except automations, which are the "Pro" version and probably uses a cloud service?). But you can do all of this with the standard firmware too.

Thanks so I guess future proofing is the a valid reason.

At this point, I am looking at home automation software is phase 3 but its good to know my optins

 

[Dee96]

I honestly do not trust the Sonoffs too much. I wouldn't try and run more than 50% the rated capacity. My first POW made arcing and I had to redo the solder tracks! I also saw where it had started warping the plastic a bit -- there must have been some heat there...

I read similar stories hence i am finding a contactor.

 

[Dee96]

Primarily for additional features most importantly being MQTT to use it with almost any home automation system and not be restricted to the Sonoff App any longer.

Also fully offline use.

Of course you could do a Shelly instead which has MQTT out of the box.

MQTT only really matters if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole and not want all off the shelf solutions.



To be honest and you won’t believe it but flashing it directly with an FTDI adaptor is the easiest.

OTA is really a lot of work and jumping through hoops and could be taken away at any moment or ever changing.

Again Shelly are happy to have you change their devices to Tasmota and make it simple. But they also offer features that make it unnecessary.




Wrong tool for the job. You want a Sonoff Mini for that.



For Tasmota it is, not sure about the original firmware, never used it more than five minutes.

****

Personally I wouldn’t put anything in my wall that wasn’t more open and therefore Tasmota from the start if you go Sonoff makes more sense.

I can almost guarantee you’ll want to change it later and then it will be too much work.

Tasmota gives you future proofing.

Guess I will bite the bullet and buy the FTDI adaptor . Thanks for the detailed response

 

[ebendl]

Good luck. Flashing a Sonoff is actually relatively easy and you'll feel really good about yourself once you do it the first time!

Just remember:
1) Disconnect it from the mains
2) Set your FTDI adapter to 3.3V
3) Double-check your connections, especially RX <-> TX and TX <-> RX
4) Remember to hold down the button when you power up to put it into programming mode
5) Take it easy, it is hard to brick these devices!