Hong Kong protests

Space_Chief said:
Maybe funny to you, but if the cops think this, and the politicos think this, and the protesters think this, even if it's very unlikely, it can still cause the authorities to respond. Besides umbrellas with sharp metal points can be used a stabbing weapons.

Look at how the UK police s-at their pants and shot that poor Brazilian tourist who was not even armed. If professional armed UK police can wet their panties, then surely regular riot cops can also become nervous.
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I think any normal person will not consider an umbrella is an "aggressive" weapon, unless you are not a human or you are mental.
 
DreamKing said:
I think any normal person will not consider an umbrella is an "aggressive" weapon, unless you are not a human or you are mental.
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That's just your opinion based on what exactly... nothing. Just your own credulity. Ok.

It's not the first time nervous cops did something to people because they felt threatened by pretty innocuous stuff.

Oh and tell it to this guy's family....
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...eward-offered-hunt-suspects-article-1.1372776

Umbrellas are safe.
 
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Also remember, this is China, where people are still quite superstitious and traditional. Folk heroes do attract respect and so their fighting styles may be seen as something realistic.
 
DreamKing said:
How to Use an Umbrella as a Weapon | Self-Defense
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LOL nice. Of course you can use the self defense weapon in an aggressive way. It depends how you behave. If cops have to disperse the crowd and then march on the crowd and the people respond then in a "self defense" way from their POV, but its' aggression for the authorities. Please don't dig the hole deeper.

As a rule cops get nervous whenever a crowd has anything which may be a weapon or behave with resistance. As do authorities. They don't like resistance. Of course if people do just this, as in that video, they will be able to put up some resistance and that will be read as aggression for the cops. Remember you have to submit to cops from their POV, there's no self defence for cops if you're breaking the law, e.g. they tell you to disperse, you don't, they come to you with their batons and shields and you "defend yourself". That's an offensive action then, an aggressive action, lol, at least for them and that's what counts.

Next you'll tell me that fists are not weapons of aggression....
 
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DreamKing said:
drink more water than your body require you will die.
so the action of "drink water" is dangerous?
BS.
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No. The argument was that an umbrella could be used as an offensive weapon. Empirical evidence shows that yes, they damn well can be used and they can be used as murder weapons. Please don't derail this. Anyway I don't want to argue with you and if you wish to discount that, fine. I'm not here to convince you. End of story, move on and let's not derail this anymore.
 
Space_Chief said:
LOL nice. Of course you can use the self defense weapon in an aggressive way. It depends how you behave. If cops have to disperse the crowd and then march on the crowd and the people respond then in a "self defense" way from their POV, but its' aggression for the authorities. Please don't dig the hole deeper.

As a rule cops get nervous whenever a crowd has anything which may be a weapon or behave with resistance. As do authorities. They don't like resistance. Of course if people do just this, as in that video, they will be able to put up some resistance and that will be read as aggression for the cops. Remember you have to submit to cops from their POV, there's no self defence for cops if you're breaking the law, e.g. they tell you to disperse, you don't, they come to you with their batons and shields and you "defend yourself". That's an offensive action then, an aggressive action, lol, at least for them and that's what counts.

Next you'll tell me that fists are not weapons of aggression....
Click to expand...

I really have nothing can say.

you are telling me, negative and positive are existing in the same time? complex number?
 
Space_Chief said:
No. The argument was that an umbrella could be used as an offensive weapon. Empirical evidence shows that yes, they damn well can be used and they can be used as murder weapons. Please don't derail this. Anyway I don't want to argue with you and if you wish to discount that, fine. I'm not here to convince you. End of story, move on and let's not derail this anymore.
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oh my god....

so an umbrella is so dangerous, do we need to consider to change our law, anyone who wants to buy an umbrella needs to apply a licence?
 
DreamKing said:
I really have nothing can say.

you are telling me, negative and positive are existing in the same time? complex number?
Click to expand...

You have not read anything, right? That's not what I'm saying at all.

From the POV of the authorities anything which the demonstrators can use to resist them would be a weapon of aggression because it's used illegitimately. You are not supposed to defend against the police. You must submit to police. That's how police and authorities work. If you resist - i.e. exercise self defence actions with an umbrella, you are using the weapon offensively. You can be charged with assaulting a police officer. They won't let you off the hook because you defended yourself using defensive moves with your umbrella. The video shows that an umbrella can be used as a reasonably effective weapon. That's good enough.

Secondly, as illustrated by at least one real life case, an umbrella can be a very dangerous, even deadly offensive weapon.

End of story. Accept or don't accept this, I don't care.
 
DreamKing said:
oh my god....

so an umbrella is so dangerous, do we need to consider to change our law, anyone who wants to buy an umbrella needs to apply a licence?
Click to expand...

Oh grow up. No-one is saying that at all and that's not the implication of this.

But yes anything can be a weapon in a tense situation. As said if cops think it's a weapon they usually have a right to act accordingly, most laws of most countries give cops some leeway about that. And yes an umbrella could be used for that. That's not to say they will ban them for everyday use but they may declare their use in protests temporarily illegal for whatever reason, and the usually have a right to do that under their laws.

Point is that yes an umbrella can be used to kill or defend oneself against police. That's good enough reason for some authorities to do something.

And I'm not defending the cops on this, but I'm just saying how this can pan out.
 
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Space_Chief said:
You have not read anything, right? That's not what I'm saying at all.

From the POV of the authorities anything which the demonstrators can use to resist them would be a weapon of aggression because it's used illegitimately. You are not supposed to defend against the police. You must submit to police. That's how police and authorities work. If you resist - i.e. exercise self defence actions with an umbrella, you are using the weapon offensively. You can be charged with assaulting a police officer. They won't let you off the hook because you defended yourself using defensive moves with your umbrella. The video shows that an umbrella can be used as a reasonably effective weapon. That's good enough.

Secondly, as illustrated by at least one real life case, an umbrella can be a very dangerous, even deadly offensive weapon.

End of story. Accept or don't accept this, I don't care.
Click to expand...

yes I know, "umbrellas" actually are "mass destruction weapons".
you know bush was looking for them in iraq.
 
HONG KONG PROTEST SITE CALM AS ACCUSATIONS FLY

A key protest site for pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong was calm Monday, after a weekend which saw numerous clashes with police and over two dozen arrests.

Tensions rose over the weekend in the Mong Kok commercial and residential district in Kowloon - across the bay from Hong Kong island - as police used pepper spray against protesters, and arrested about 26 people.

Five police officers were reported to have been injured.

In a television interview over the weekend, the island's chief executive, Leung Chun-ying, accused "external forces" of being involved in the unrest, Hong Kong daily South China Morning Post reported Monday.

The allegations were denied by student leaders, according to the BBC.

Talks between the protesters and the government are expected to take place on Tuesday between 6 and 8 pm (1000-1200 GMT).

The protesters are calling for open elections for the semi-autonomous Chinese territory's next chief executive in 2017, rejecting a ruling from Beijing that candidates must be approved by a government-backed election committee.

China's Communist Party mouthpiece, the People's Daily, on Sunday said in a commentary that the protest's organisers wanted Hong Kong to have "self-determination" and even to be "independent."


Source : Sapa-dpa /mr
Date : 20 Oct 2014 05:10
 
HONG KONG PROTEST LEADERS RIDICULE 'EXTERNAL FORCES' CLAIM

Hong Kong pro-democracy leaders Monday angrily denied claims by the city's chief executive that more than three weeks of mass rallies in the Asian financial hub are being orchestrated by "external forces".

In a television interview broadcast Sunday evening, embattled city leader Leung Chun-ying blamed foreign forces for the ongoing protests but refused to identify them.

The claims sparked ridicule from democracy leaders, who insist their movement is fuelled by local demands for greater democratic freedoms and growing discontent at increased inequality.

In a sarcastic post on his Facebook page Monday, teenage student leader Joshua Wong said: "My links with foreign countries are limited to my Korean cellphone, my American computer and my Japanese Gundam (an animated series featuring robots). And of course, all of these are 'Made in China'."

Parts of Hong Kong have been paralysed by mass rallies and road blockades demanding free elections in the semi-autonomous Chinese city, in one of the biggest challenges to Beijing's authority since the Tiananmen pro-democracy protests of 1989.

Beijing has offered Hong Kongers the chance to vote for their next leader in 2017 but only those vetted by a loyalist committee will be allowed to stand -- something protesters have labelled as "fake democracy".

Talks to end the impasse are slated for late Tuesday between student leaders and senior government officials. But there are fears any further clashes between police and protesters could derail those discussions.

After more than a fortnight of largely peaceful mass rallies, tensions have soared after protesters clashed with police trying to clear some of the major intersections that demonstrators control.

Overnight there was no violence at the three protests sites where protesters hold sway -- the first peaceful period in four days.

The working-class district of Mongkok, which has seen the worst of the violence, was largely calmed by the presence of two popular pro-democracy lawmakers who placed themselves between police and protester lines.

During his interview with ATV Leung said protests had got "out of hand" and called for "a peaceful and a meaningful end to this problem". But he also accused the movement of taking their cue from outsiders.

"I shan't go into details, but this is not entirely a domestic movement," he said.

His comments echoed Chinese state media, which has repeatedly alleged that "anti-China forces" such as the United States are manipulating the protesters, while Beijing has warned against foreign meddling in what it says is an internal affair.

Commentaries on the mainland have also increasingly described the Hong Kong protests as a "colour revolution" -- a term used by Beijing for political movements funded by international forces.

But Alex Chow, president of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, denied those claims and called on Leung to give concrete examples showing why he believed the protests were not locally inspired.

"He clearly wants to attack the movement by labelling it a colour revolution. But as a chief executive, who is accountable to the public, I hope he will produce evidence to back up such accusations," he told reporters late Sunday.


Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 20 Oct 2014 10:28
 
HK LEADER: 'EXTERNAL FORCES' INVOLVED IN PROTESTS

Hong Kong's leader has claimed that "external forces" are participating in student-led pro-democracy protests that have occupied parts of this financial capital for more than three weeks, but provided no evidence to back his accusation.

Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying's statement in a televised interview Sunday was the first time he has alleged foreign involvement in the unrest, echoing accusations by China's central government, which also has not backed them with any evidence. Leung's statement comes just before his government is scheduled to hold talks with student leaders on Tuesday.

When asked on the "Newsline" program about a Chinese official's comments on outside involvement, Leung said, "There is obviously participation by people, organizations from outside of Hong Kong." Leung added that the foreign actors came from "different countries in different parts of the world," but didn't specify which countries.

The Hong Kong Federation of Students immediately rejected the accusations, with Secretary General Alex Chow saying Leung was "just making it up."

"He's the chief executive, he's an accountable official," Chow told reporters. "If he's putting forward these accusations, then we hope he also puts forward the evidence. But he shouldn't just say that foreign powers are meddling without evidence."

Protesters, mostly young college students, are pressing for a greater say in choosing the semiautonomous Chinese city's leader in an inaugural direct election, promised by Beijing for 2017. They oppose Beijing's ruling that a committee stacked with pro-Beijing elites should screen candidates in the election. That effectively means that Beijing can vet candidates before they go to a public vote.

In what has become a daily pattern, the police have driven away the students from some streets during the night, only to see them regroup and occupy the areas and resume their sit-ins. The protests stretched into their fourth week Monday with thousands of demonstrators camped out in downtown Hong Kong and two other sites in this city of 7.2 million.

After two nights of violent clashes, protesters and police settled into an uneasy peace in the densely commercial Mong Kok district after two pro-democracy legislators, Fernando Chiu and Claudia Mo, arrived late Sunday night and helped calm tensions.

Earlier Sunday, police spokesman Steve Hui said an unnamed 23-year-old was arrested on the charge of accessing a computer "with criminal or dishonest intent" and unlawful assembly. Hui said the suspect had "incited others on an online forum to join the unlawful assembly in Mong Kok, to charge at police and to paralyze the railways."

It was the first arrest for online protest activity since the demonstrations began.

Police also said Sunday that 33 people had been arrested during the protests on common assault, criminal damage and other charges.

Nearly 300 people have been taken to hospital emergency rooms with injuries related to the protests since Sept. 28, the city's Hospital Authority reported Monday.


Source : Sapa-AP /kd
Date : 20 Oct 2014 11:14
 
HONG KONG PROTEST LEADERS RIDICULE 'EXTERNAL FORCES' CLAIM

(PICTURE)

Hong Kong pro-democracy leaders Monday angrily denied claims by the city's chief executive that "external forces" are orchestrating their mass rallies, ahead of talks intended to end three weeks of political stalemate.

In a television interview broadcast Sunday evening, embattled city leader Leung Chun-ying blamed foreign forces for the ongoing protests but refused to identify them.

The claims sparked ridicule from democracy leaders in the semi-autonomous Chinese city, who insist their movement is fuelled by local demands for greater democratic freedoms and growing discontent at increased inequality.

In a sarcastic post on his Facebook page Monday, teenage student leader Joshua Wong said: "My links with foreign countries are limited to my Korean cellphone, my American computer and my Japanese Gundam (an animated series featuring robots). And of course, all of these are 'Made in China'."

Claudia Mo, a prominent pro-democracy lawmaker, accused the Hong Kong government of smear tactics.

"They cannot succumb to the protesters and say 'Maybe we should make concessions?' so instead they have to blacken and smear this campaign. It's all very dirty," she told AFP.

Parts of Hong Kong have been paralysed by mass rallies and road blockades demanding free elections in the city, in one of the biggest challenges to Beijing's authority since the Tiananmen pro-democracy protests of 1989.

Beijing has offered Hong Kongers the chance to vote for their next leader in 2017. But only those vetted by a loyalist committee will be allowed to stand -- something protesters have labelled as "fake democracy".

Talks to end the impasse are slated for late Tuesday between student leaders and senior government officials. But there are fears any further clashes between police and protesters could derail those discussions.

After more than a fortnight of largely peaceful mass rallies, tensions soared after protesters clashed with police trying to clear some of the major intersections that demonstrators control.

Overnight there was no violence at the three protests sites where protesters hold sway -- the first peaceful period in four days.

The working-class district of Mongkok, which has seen the worst of the violence, was largely calmed by the presence of two popular pro-democracy lawmakers -- including Mo -- who placed themselves between police and protester lines.

Despite the lull in violence, police Monday renewed their criticism of what they have begun to call a group of "radical" protesters in Mongkok who charge their lines and provoke officers.

They also criticised parents for bringing children to the protest site, describing them as "irresponsible, selfish and reckless".

Protesters in Mongkok, many of whom have begun donning helmets and hand-made body armour, deny being the cause of the rise in violence.

Instead they say they have been forced to adopt defensive protection because police have begun to increasingly use batons on them.

During his interview with ATV Leung said protests had got "out of hand" and called for "a peaceful and a meaningful end to this problem". But he also accused the movement of taking their cue from outsiders.

"I shan't go into details, but this is not entirely a domestic movement," he said.

His comments echoed Chinese state media, which has repeatedly alleged that "anti-China forces" such as the United States are manipulating the protesters. Beijing has warned against foreign meddling in what it says is an internal affair.

Commentaries on the mainland have also increasingly described the Hong Kong protests as a "colour revolution" -- a term used by Beijing for political movements funded by international forces.

But Alex Chow, president of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, denied those claims and called on Leung to give concrete examples showing why he believed the protests were not locally inspired.

"He clearly wants to attack the movement by labelling it a colour revolution. But as a chief executive, who is accountable to the public, I hope he will produce evidence to back up such accusations," he told reporters late Sunday.


Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 20 Oct 2014 11:53
 
NO END IN SIGHT FOR HONG KONG PROTESTS AFTER TALKS

Hong Kong student leaders Wednesday said they may not take part in further talks with the government after accusing city authorities of failing to make any meaningful offers to end weeks of mass rallies.

The comments are a blow to the city's Beijing-backed leaders who had expressed hopes for fresh rounds of talks after meeting face-to-face with students on Tuesday night for the first time.

The negotiations are widely seen as the only way to end nearly a month of protests calling for full democracy in the southern Chinese city without a police crackdown or further violence.

But the first formal talks on Tuesday night made little headway with students calling the government "vague" in its commitment to finding a genuine compromise.

"About whether there will be talks in the future this is something that isn't decided," Hong Kong Federation of Students secretary general Alex Chow told reporters Wednesday morning.

"The government has to come up with some way to solve this problem, but what they are offering does not have any practical content," Chow said, adding protesters will not leave the streets any time soon.

A handful of protesters later marched on the residence of Hong Kong leader Leung Chun-ying.

Both sides are at loggerheads over how the city's next leader should be chosen. Protesters want to nominate and vote for candidates in 2017.

But Beijing ruled in August that only those vetted by a loyalist committee would be allowed to stand -- something protesters dismiss as "fake democracy".

During talks, government negotiators insisted Beijing would never agree to civil nomination.

But they made a series conciliatory offers including a promise to brief mainland officials on recent events and suggesting both sides could set up a "platform" to discuss further political reform beyond 2017.

Student leaders remain unimpressed, saying the government has offered nothing concrete.

They called on officials to give a clearer indication of what their proposals actually entail.

The ongoing protests have led to angry confrontations between local residents fed up with the disruption caused.

On Wednesday afternoon a fresh attempt was made by opponents of the protesters to dismantle barriers in Mongkok, a district which has previously seen frequent violent scuffles.

A handful of taxis were also parked on a nearby street protesting against the barricades.

A number of businesses -- including a taxi driver association --successfully applied to the High Court to have injunctions brought against the protesters but given the camps are already considered illegal it remains to be seen what effect those injunctions will have.

Meanwhile in a video posted Wednesday on the Facebook page for the Digital Broadcasting Corporation radio channel, an angry citizen was recorded berating student leader Alex Chow.

"Your mother gave birth to you by mistake, she should have strangled you to death after she gave birth," the woman shouted at Chow as he waited at a bus station.

"You've studied so much and you're causing harm to Hong Kong. You think China will listen to what you're saying?" she continued.

Observers hope the talks, which were abruptly cancelled earlier this month and then resurrected after recent outbreaks of violence between protesters and police, will help find some sort of face-saving compromise for both sides.

If talks are abandoned, many fear a return to violent scuffles seen late last week that saw dozens injured after protesters battled with police as they tried to clear barricades.


Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 22 Oct 2014 10:02
 
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