How can you drive into cyclists?

[reech]

Not "eh?"

He's quite right .... Motorbikes with an engine-capacity of 50cc or less are not allowed on National roads or highways - and that same law applies to unpowered vehicles, which, I believe, includes bicycles.

my bad - you're totally correct - I didn't mean for that to be there. .

 

[Turtle]

I simply fail to understand the irrational hostility that motorists have towards cyclists and find it really disturbing.

Likewise. Some of the statements people are making here are beyond absurd.

 

[hj2k_x]

Likewise. Some of the statements cyclists are making here are beyond absurd.

Corrected it for ya

 

[Turtle]

http://www.acts.co.za/rt_nrta/regs_311_riding_on_pedal_cycles.htm


National Road Traffic Act, 1996
National Road Traffic Regulations, 1999
Chapter X : Rules of the road and matters relating thereto
Part I : Rules of the road
311. Riding on pedal cycles


2) Persons riding pedal cycles on a public road ...

Thanks for proving that our public roads ARE also made for cyclists (not just "made for cars"), and that this is in fact explicitly encoded into our legislation, and if you think the roads are "made for cars" then it is YOU who is the one who is so ignorant of how our road rules work that you should not be allowed on the road until you learn the basics. (Of course these things should be obvious to any rational person, but there are some highly irrational claims being made on this forum.)

 

[hj2k_x]

Thanks for proving that our public roads ARE also made for cyclists (not just "made for cars"), and that this is in fact explicitly encoded into our legislation, and if you think the roads are "made for cars" then it is YOU who is the one who is so ignorant of how our road rules work that you should not be allowed on the road until you learn the basics. (Of course these things should be obvious to any rational person, but there are some highly irrational claims being made on this forum.)

I cannot believe the arrogance of some people. I really can't.

 

[PeterCH]

Primarily perhaps, but cyclists have every right to use them. Cycling should in fact be encouraged.

It should be ENCOURAGED on seperate roads where cyclists and motorvehicles won't come into close proximity.

There is no lower speed limit on anything other than the freeway AFAIK.

The principle is that those are high transit expressways. Many roads are similar but restricted further by speed.
Logic and real world situations dictate that freeways are free from light motor vehicles and bicycles.

and??

I'll cycle where I please, thank you.

If you force me to endanger my life because of your hobby I will
have you arrested and will force huge civil claims against you.
You will not afford them -- I assure you.

erm, ok. All cyclists are out to get you - or 'cause the problems'.

No, cyclists especially guys like you, as inconsiderate as you are.

Pedestrians are obliged to stay on the sidewalk, similarly (read:legally) cyclists are obliged to stay on the road.

Cyclists are not obliged to use roadways. I have no other means of transportation as I have to use a car for
various purposes, for example when I'm on call.

I don't know where to begin here, but here goes:
I've had 2 bikes wrecked by idiot motorists (obviously not all motorists are idiots) pulling out in front of me- endangering my life. It's me on a bike vs idiot in 2 ton metal shell.

Again for your own health you should cycle somewhere else and not
on a road. The air is also better.

If you kept to the emergency lane, chances are you'd have been ok.

I ride for transport, I ride for pleasure; who are you to determine which of my journeys are 'valid'?

[/QUOTE]

Both are invalid when they violate my rights. You can cycle elsewhere, I can't drive my car elsewhere. You are welcome
to drive your car on any road.

Your attitude shows that you're not mature enough to share a road with motor vehicles.

 

[hj2k_x]

It should be ENCOURAGED on seperate roads where cyclists and motorvehicles won't come into close proximity.




The principle is that those are high transit expressways. Many roads are similar but restricted further by speed.
Logic and real world situations dictate that freeways are free from light motor vehicles and bicycles.

and??




If you force me to endanger my life because of your hobby I will
have you arrested and will force huge civil claims against you.
You will not afford them -- I assure you.





No, cyclists especially guys like you, as inconsiderate as you are.




Cyclists are not obliged to use roadways. I have no other means of transportation as I have to use a car for
various purposes, for example when I'm on call.




Again for your own health you should cycle somewhere else and not
on a road. The air is also better.

If you kept to the emergency lane, chances are you'd have been ok.


Both are invalid when they violate my rights. You can cycle elsewhere, I can't drive my car elsewhere. You are welcome
to drive your car on any road.

Your attitude shows that you're not mature enough to share a road with motor vehicles.

All, indisputable arguments.

 

[PeterCH]

All, indisputable arguments.

It's true. Most people drive for essential purposes. Cyclists usually cycle for
fun or recreation. The need to practice for one or other cycle tour in rush
hour traffic seems egoistical to me.

 

[reech]

It should be ENCOURAGED on seperate roads where cyclists and motorvehicles won't come into close proximity.

Fine with me.

If you force me to endanger my life because of your hobby I will
have you arrested and will force huge civil claims against you.
You will not afford them -- I assure you.

You're going to have me arrested for cycling on the road when you happen to be driving your hunk of metal on it? If anyone's life is in danger it's mine - being on the road at the same time as you.

Cyclists are not obliged to use roadways. I have no other means of transportation as I have to use a car for various purposes, for example when I'm on call.

Incorrect - if I only have a bicycle I'm forced to use roads to get just about anywhere.

Both are invalid when they violate my rights.
.

eh? Your rights are not being violated at all.

Peter - none of your arguments stand up at all and are largely unsubstantiated. You are clearly delusional if you believe that you can have me arrested for cycling on a public road.

 

[TheKid]

Off topic but haha...

You guys know that new building in cavendish, by that, I mean the one with the knew pic 'n pay in it. ON the cycle lane there is a sign. The poles of wich are completely blocking the path...

Only in SA! Will try get a pic.

 

[RandomDesign]

Hello

I have a lot to say as this is something I feel strongly about. My road use is currently mostly on a bicycle (purely for enjoyment and some fitness), but I drove a car for over 10 years and rode a motorcycle for about 6-7 years too, before bike commuting to work for over a year. I've spent the last several years overseas (left and right hand side of the road baby!) as cyclist, driver, and public transport user. Having recently returned to Jhb, the transport situation appears to have gone from appalling to fúcking horrendous. I can see nowhere else to point the finger but at the government. This (public transport) is one of many areas they have utterly failed the people. The only improvements made (and this is obviously still very much under way for the FIFA circus) have all been "event" driven - when some big international conference or show is duped into coming here, suddenly people start thinking about things like road congestion and how it is that there is no public transport between the biggest airport in the country and the city it's a part of. The improvements only NOW being undertaken should've been under way 10 years ago. Instead, the taxi situation spiralled out of control and the Metro pigs still fail miserably at doing anything about the road accident and death rates, nevermind controlling the taxi problem, and are useful only for jumping from behind a bush on a quiet road to scare Jan Van Dumbschit for not coming to a complete stop at a stop street.

Aside from all that, it's interesting but more saddening to see this "us vs them" attitude so willingly subscribed to by both sides of the cyclist/motorist matter. There is no us and them on the road, there is we. We are all equal by the laws of physics. F=ma. Apparently high school physics teachers have been failing us for decades because no one really GETS that equation.

I'm pleased to say that I've been cycling for some years and have never had a collision with another vehicle. I think that this is in no small part because, contrary to the feelings in this thread, most motorists are not homicidal bike-haters who feel the best place for a bicycle is under their car. At least, not towards me. Of course there will always be those bumwipes who will be behind a "slow" car in a single lane road, start overtaking, see a cyclist coming the other way 60m down the street, and still put foot and nevermind that he passes said oncoming cyclist at 90kph less than half a metre away. I accept that they are out there and I keep hoping they miss me. So far so good. But I think part of the reason I still have all my arms and legs is because I try not to ride like a dick. I keep as far left as safe. I try to use quiet suburban streets as much as possible during quiet hours. If I hear a car coming up behind me, I don't TURN AROUND AND CHECK, I try get a little more over left. If I'm wrong, so what, if I'm right, maybe I just got myself that needed inch out the way. When I get to a red light, if there's a car I will wait. If the intersection is deserted I usually roll through (although I have to admit, I've found an odd pleasure in sitting at deserted intersections and just watching the lights change. This is usually in the wee hours though, probably not the best idea around Jhb)

I think the government definitely should've made an effort to get more people on bicycles, and get some safety advocacy out there with it. I think it's fair to say that after 15+ years in service, the K53 education system is a failure at making the roads safer - for anyone. It's only good for making money for the bureaucracy built around it. People (drivers and cyclists) here don't know how to deal with cyclists. Overseas, they seem to understand and accept that bicycles are legitimate road users, valid forms of transport. Drivers don't look at cyclists and think "get the fúck off my road you spandexed idiot", and cyclists don't look at drivers and think "this is my road too you fúcking egotistical dip****". Drivers understand the cyclists, like them, are going from A to B and that is OKAY. The cyclists understand that if a car hits them, they lose.
Here, unfortunately, cycling is a recreational activity, a sport for those who can afford it, and an actual form of transport for a pithy minority who can barely afford to patch their tubes. That is a woeful state of affairs. When I go looking for "commutery" bits for my bicycle, things like rearview mirrors, panniers, reflector stripes etc., shop assistants here look at me like I'm asking for one of those pedal-driven sex machines where a dildo moves up and down as you pedal. If it's not something racey, something to give me the edge and make ME the WINNER, I should probably try down the street.

I can't really describe how frustrating and grinding it is when I'm on a ride, and I get behind a group of Armstrong-wannabes all decked out like they're already in the Tour de Argus 94.7. The group may be from 3-12+ in number, and it will always be at least 3-4 wide. Forcing anyone overtaking, including other cyclists, into the oncoming traffic lane. I can't fathom this combination of brazen stupidity and lack of responsibility towards others. And particularly, as if we needed to get particular about it, when it's uphill and almost guaranteed to be blocking traffic. Who the fúck do they think they are? Used to be that I'd silently storm past and that'd be all (because strangely enough, I'm faster than them usually... and I'm on a mtb!), nowadays I overtake a little slower and repeat "single file, guys, single file" as I go along. Responses are less than agreeable or compliant But I have to say, if I were driving up a hill, being forced into the wrong side of the road to overtake these chumps and suddenly saw a car coming for me... well, it's playing dominoes with cyclists and netting me no injury vs ruining my car and putting my life at risk. Sorry guys, no brainer and no sympathy here.

Any cyclist who doesn't know he's the weakest most frail thing on the road is unfortunately deserving of what will happen. If you are a cyclist and you hit something, a bus, a car, a pedestrian, a lamppost, a half a fúcking piece of brick lying in the road - YOU LOSE EVERY TIME.

All that said, sometimes apparently erratic or brazen cyclist behaviour may not be correctly understood by the driver. A cyclist apparently far out from the side of the road may be avoiding a danger a driver is not conscious of - rocks, a bush that's sticking out too far, litter, accumulated debris (especially around Jhb now after all the rain, there are piles of dirt and sand along so many roads and they are not safe. "Oh", you say, "come on Mr mtb, be a big boy and ride through the sand"... it can be dangerous, sometimes it's hard to tell how loose the sand is and that makes loss of control a real possibilty. You really want me falling down in front of your wheels?), there are a lot of dangers to the cyclist which a driver has no reason to even be aware of.

So in closing;
- to the government and politicians: fúck you, you're fúcking useless, go fúck yourselves instead of us
- to cyclists: you may have right of way and be fully correct according to the law, but FORCE = MASS x ACCELERATION
- to motorists: please be patient and reasonable, taking 3-4 seconds extra with that idiot cyclist might be worth not having someone's paralysis or death on your conscience for the rest of your life.

 

[Jase]

Just drive own Zambesi road on a Saturday. There is allways a bunch cyclists riding 2 or 3 abreast. Don't you think we must arrange to open the old Pilditch sport arena every Tuesday evening and let them drive around and around for 5 or six hours. Maybe they'll keep off the roads then...

Actually it is. There are track cyclists training there ...

 

[RandomDesign]

Kyalami also has open evenings during the week, especially now in race season, where for R5-10 you can ride there for a coupla hours.

 

[porn$tar]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2470535,00.html

Note that most of the comments are about cyclists not riding single-file, even from other cyclists.

 

[shadowfox]

Note that most of the comments are about cyclists not riding single-file, even from other cyclists.

I think that was the point most people in this thread were trying to make.

 

[eltherza]

If you kept to the emergency lane, chances are you'd have been ok.

Nope, taxi's will hunt em down

 

[shadowfox]

The accident mentioned in that article took place on the R27, which has an emergency lane wide enough for a car to drive in safely (proven by the occasional taxi that uses it to skip traffic). Most of the time I see cyclists on that road though they ride either on the line, or outside the emergency lane in the road. When there's two or three of them, they easily take up a significant portion of the left lane, even though there's enough space in that emergency lane for all of them.

 

[Sneeky]

The old mercedes saloons make a great targeting tool to kill the road roaches.

 

[guest2013-1]

Its a two way street (pun intended)

But I agree, most cyclists aren't educated enough to know what "keep your line" means or that you can't cycle next to each other on an open road. The only time that can be done is in funrides and competitions when you have people looking out for you

However, motorists also neglect to check the blind spot before turning or signal properly and timeously.

 

[porn$tar]

I think that was the point most people in this thread were trying to make.

That's what I was trying to reinforce, but cyclists think there is a conspiracy that motorists are out to get them. They (some) are the ones who put themselves in harm's way.