How do software developers afford Cape Town rental

[zaozzie]

I just want to rant about Cape Town.

Cape Town is the go to place for startups and software developers. I find a lot of software dev jobs here in and in classified it has way more opportunities listed.. Problem is rental is sky high. Not just talking about City Center but also the Southern Suburbs. Rental for a room in Rondebosch with no parking easily exceeds what you rent for a 3 bedroom townhouse with two garages and a garden in Joburg despite the Cape Town houses on the outside not looking nice or being much older

Travel times from the Northern suburbs and places like Blouberg make the money on petrol and hours wasted in the car daily not worth while if you want to rent fudther away.

Car insurance premiums will be sky high due to street parking. Even super successful companies like SAP need employees organize lift clubs as you rarely get enough office parking

House breaking seem to be a way of life here and people don't even report to police when it happens. In joburg at least aren't as brazen as they know owners there carry guns. Petty criminals here are able to make a living off it if you live in an area near transport routes.

Salaries here are much lower. For example an entry level call center agent or computer or network technician 's salaries advertises at R5K. For the same job in Joburg I found it advertizes at R15K.

My question is for other people in the IT sector who have moved to Cape Town. How do you manage it here?

 

[Thor]

It's hard, but what can you do.

 

[sp4ceman]

i earn more in Pietermaritzburg than i would in cape town. it's the only reason i haven't moved there. i have no idea how people afford it.

 

[StrontiumDog]

Yah, tell me about it. I just returned from a visit to Bryanston/Sandton and it seems that Century City cost per square metre is more expensive that the people whose places I visited are. And Century City is still cheap compared to Rondebosch...

 

[cguy]

I have noticed a disturbing downward trend in the software-dev-salary to CoL ratio in SA over the last 15 years.

 

[kripstoe]

Cape Town is the go to place for startups and software developers. I find a lot of software dev jobs here in and in classified it has way more opportunities listed.. Problem is rental is sky high.

You sort of answered your own question regarding rental prices. Supply and demand. Little supply of property and lots of demand for rental places. I went to look at a house for rent, on behalf of a colleague from Jhb. I got there and there was a mass of people wanting to rent it.

The salary thing (in part) is also that. Many people wanting to move to Cape Town, so could be an oversupply of applicants? I'm speculating.

As for the "How do you manage it here" question. Patience. Compromise. Save as much as possible. When I moved to Cape Town in 2007, companies told me to keep in mind how expensive Cape Town is during the interview process. Even though I worked in the CBD, I chose to stay in the Northern Suburbs and do very early morning/very late evening commutes to avoid traffic. I basically just slept at my place. It's gotten much better since though.

 

[kripstoe]

I have noticed a disturbing downward trend in the software-dev-salary to CoL ratio in SA over the last 15 years.

Care to speculate on the reason(s)?

 

[cguy]

Care to speculate on the reason(s)?

My speculation:

One impression that I have is that a lot of SA software development has become commoditized: Developers in SA have been moving towards effectively building content for companies, rather than developing new technology, which was more of a focus back in the day (90's). Although these "content creators" are often highly skilled programmers, it a) tends to be more accessible (no Maths II, no 3rd year non-CS subjects, etc. - which incidentally was a requirement to get a BSc in CS from UCT), and b) increasingly employs many more people than those companies developing technology. The combination of these resulted in an increasingly higher supply vs. demand, which has meant that salaries haven't kept up.

I recall back in the late 90's many new honours and masters graduates were earning significantly more than senior university staff, accountants, doctors, dentists and lawyers (of comparable seniority) at the time. Although income has gone up across the board due to inflation, my impression is that developers have increased slower than the other professions, and probably slower than inflation too.

Another point that I also believe affects developers more than the other professions, is the expectation that developers become managers as part of their normal career progression. This is also something that follows from commoditization: there's always someone to replace "the 32 year old", who just became a manager. In contrast, for doctors, lawyers, accountants, dentists, university staff, etc., practicing in their profession is a usually a terminal career point. The net effect of this is that development is viewed as a "junior" role (even for "senior developers" or even architects), while management is considered "senior" - fundamentally, the old-school "How many people in your fiefdom?" mentality. This tends to inflate manager salaries and deflate developer salaries, creating glass salary ceilings. Connecting this to the last point: paired with the additional supply, being a developer today is a lot less glamorous than it was in the late 90's (relatively speaking - I still think it is an enjoyable and possibly lucrative career path).

 

[akescpt]

Cape town is shyte expensive. Sometimes I have the romantic notion of moving closer to work but then I need about 8k for equivalent but less if I'll prepared to scale down.

 

[nand]

How expensive is it really though? anybody care to shed some light on rent prices?

Living in Centurion, you also won't get a decent 3-bed place for under 8 to 10k, and that's only townhouses. That's my experience from looking recently though.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Buy a place instead. It's almost always cheaper or about the same.

I have a massive laugh when I found out my neighbour was renting for exactly the same amount I pay for my bond and the two houses are virtually identical.

People are willing to pay for it and therefore people charge for it. Especially around the student areas of UCT and such.

 

[semaphore]

Another point that I also believe affects developers more than the other professions, is the expectation that developers become managers as part of their normal career progression. This is also something that follows from commoditization: there's always someone to replace "the 32 year old", who just became a manager. In contrast, for doctors, lawyers, accountants, dentists, university staff, etc., practicing in their profession is a usually a terminal career point. The net effect of this is that development is viewed as a "junior" role (even for "senior developers" or even architects), while management is considered "senior" - fundamentally, the old-school "How many people in your fiefdom?" mentality. This tends to inflate manager salaries and deflate developer salaries, creating glass salary ceilings. Connecting this to the last point: paired with the additional supply, being a developer today is a lot less glamorous than it was in the late 90's (relatively speaking - I still think it is an enjoyable and possibly lucrative career path).

Funnily enough I spoke to someone with this exact same mindset, however they pay their developers stupid salaries in South African terms.

Also you get these people calling themselves architects, but they wouldn't be able to get out of a building with a schematic.

 

[semaphore]

How expensive is it really though? anybody care to shed some light on rent prices?

Living in Centurion, you also won't get a decent 3-bed place for under 8 to 10k, and that's only townhouses. That's my experience from looking recently though.

dafuq, who would want to stay there anyways.

 

[cguy]

Funnily enough I spoke to someone with this exact same mindset, however they pay their developers stupid salaries in South African terms.

Also you get these people calling themselves architects, but they wouldn't be able to get out of a building with a schematic.

Amazon by any chance?

 

[whatwhat]

Funnily enough I spoke to someone with this exact same mindset, however they pay their developers stupid salaries in South African terms.

Also you get these people calling themselves architects, but they wouldn't be able to get out of a building with a schematic.

Stupid good or stupid bad? You don't have to mention name but got any examples?

As for architect, yeah, it's a title just gets thrown around for anything now. I've long ago realized now to take any title at a company too seriously.

 

[semaphore]

Amazon by any chance?

No they're based in jhb.

 

[semaphore]

Stupid good or stupid bad? You don't have to mention name but got any examples?

As for architect, yeah, it's a title just gets thrown around for anything now. I've long ago realized now to take any title at a company too seriously.

Stupid good

 

[bromster]

If you look at mid to high-end flats and townhouses, Jozi and CT are quite comparable, with Jozi being 1-2 grand cheaper based on the sheer number of available properties.

The main advantage of starting out in Jo'burg is that there are hundreds of new, cheap complexes continuously being built. The result is that there is an oversupply of property and lower demand, which drives the price down. In my complex on the east rand, there are almost always 3 or 4 units available for immediate occupation at any given time. Nearly new 2 bed flats of around 80m^2 cost 4500 - 5000 per month with modern finishings etc. A 55m^2 flat in Royal Ascot would cost 6500 to 7000.

Also, space is very limited in CT. Construction costs are higher due to space constrictions as well as terrain. Gumtree is like a skirmish and you will have people fighting for viewings on the first day the property was listed. It is crazy.

 

[chrisc]

We all live in shacks on the Cape Flats. However, many of us have DSTV and BMW cars

 

[AthenianOwl]

Jeez, this is depressing I always want to work in Cape Town. Hell, I would give my marbles to make it happen.