How does a chip upgrade work

[SauRoNZA]

A stage 1 remap on a turbo car is most certainly not a waste of money. Best 3-5k you'll spend and you probably don't need hardware for it.
Once you do intake and exhaust you can look at a stage 2 map which is even more fun

That's another retarded concept that doesn't make any sense.

Referring to upgrades by "Stages". This isn't Gran Turismo and everyone idea of "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" different from one tuner to another and one car to another.

Also a blanket statement like that doesn't apply to everything that has a Turbo.

Sure on a the moderately retuned VAG stuff doing a chip upgrade or reflash will make a huge difference bang for buck (if you don't calculate reliability into it) but you can't say the same for an A45 for instance.

 

[ChocolateBadger]

so if remapping is so good then why isn't it stock. I mean isn't the goal to get the most power and fuel efficiency out of the engine?

 

[Sinbad]

so if remapping is so good then why isn't it stock. I mean isn't the goal to get the most power and fuel efficiency out of the engine?

Manufacturers are conservative.

 

[Haldex]

so if remapping is so good then why isn't it stock. I mean isn't the goal to get the most power and fuel efficiency out of the engine?

You really think manufacturers goal is to get the most power out of an engine?
The better manufacturers have to cater for extra power, eg better brakes, higher rated shocks, stronger pistons and other hardware which will drive up the costs.

 

[DanH]

so these people showing a 12kW increase in power at the wheels with these chips on a dyno isnt worth it ?

I call BS,

There is no way a standard NA car gets 12kw extra by remapping.

That tuner is being dishonest.

 

[Swa]

Yup. Only worth doing if you do major hardware mods like reprofiled cams or injector upgrades

What about the NOS?

so if remapping is so good then why isn't it stock. I mean isn't the goal to get the most power and fuel efficiency out of the engine?

You can go for power or fuel efficiency. Manufacturers maintain a balance that will suite most people. A dyno can give a more accurate profile for the specific hardware. No part is the same even coming from the same manufacturing line so you need a default map that will suite most and doing testing will just drive up costs unnecessarily.

Doing a remap is really only worth it if you're racing and modding. Otherwise if you can afford it you can probably afford the little fuel it's going to save. Practice good driving instead. That can give a real world fuel saving and actually requires some skill. Remapping feels too much like cheating in games for me.

 

[RiaX]

Sounds about right.
10%^ N/A and 30%^ turbo.
What chip is it?

well thats what im trying to find out. Usually when you ask about chips people will say go here or there and they will chip it for you as if there is some universal chip handed down from god's engineering department >.<

 

[RiaX]

I call BS,

There is no way a standard NA car gets 12kw extra by remapping.

That tuner is being dishonest.

why would you say that ? thats why the dyno shows before and after the chip. Also if you consider for a fact with the type of person that does this sort of thing and discusses it they would not hide the details of their modifications

 

[SauRoNZA]

so if remapping is so good then why isn't it stock. I mean isn't the goal to get the most power and fuel efficiency out of the engine?

Exactly why I mentioned reliability in brackets in my last post.

Manufacturers tune a car based on R&D stats that determine the majority of engines will live the life of the car for a given specification.

Just because someone's friend of a friend and his cousin's cousin got 250kw out of a 2.0T without it exploding doesn't mean the next five engines to try the same thing will be so lucky.

Lowest common denominator always applies.

And like someone said it's not all about the engine. There are brakes and suspension and he chassis itself to consider which is something every tuner doesn't seem to think about.

300km/h in 10 seconds mean nothing if you can't stop the car.

Besides give me handling over too much power any day of the week.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I call BS,

There is no way a standard NA car gets 12kw extra by remapping.

That tuner is being dishonest.

Doesn't sound too crazy to me.

But it all depends where you start really.

You won't get 12kw off a 99kw engine sure, but You might very easily get 12kw off a 250kw engine.

 

[Haldex]

why would you say that ? thats why the dyno shows before and after the chip. Also if you consider for a fact with the type of person that does this sort of thing and discusses it they would not hide the details of their modifications

It become common practice these days to exaggerate dyno charts and figures.
You would be surprised at the length some guys go to to gain a few hp to one up their rivals.
Things like ice in the intake or inter coolers, octane boosters etc
They do hide hardware mods.
Just find a reputable brand with a good track record before deciding, do your research first.
Don't trust local tuners especially tuners that will ridicule other tuners.

 

[Haldex]

Exactly why I mentioned reliability in brackets in my last post.

Manufacturers tune a car based on R&D stats that determine the majority of engines will live the life of the car for a given specification.

Just because someone's friend of a friend and his cousin's cousin got 250kw out of a 2.0T without it exploding doesn't mean the next five engines to try the same thing will be so lucky.

Lowest common denominator always applies.

And like someone said it's not all about the engine. There are brakes and suspension and he chassis itself to consider which is something every tuner doesn't seem to think about.

300km/h in 10 seconds mean nothing if you can't stop the car.

Besides give me handling over too much power any day of the week.

I would guess that 5/5 golf r or S3s can get to 250kw with 3 - 4 mods.
They 2.0T and they can manage it with the standard brake setups, strong piston rods, injectors and standard turbo.

 

[DanH]

why would you say that ? thats why the dyno shows before and after the chip. Also if you consider for a fact with the type of person that does this sort of thing and discusses it they would not hide the details of their modifications

There are no standards tuners adhere to when rolling road dyno'ing a car, nobody checking up on them. They are free to give the calibration knobs of the dyno a twist before and after should they so wish. Furthermore the conditions under which the runs take place are not repeatable. Do you really think manufactures do such a poor job of mapping engines that 12kw can go to waste?

The notion of manufactures maps being set "loosely" to cater for variations in the manufacturing process is BS, the management systems have various negative feedback systems which allow the management to adjust to the small variations caused by the tolerances.

Secondly the notion of manufactures mapping for economy and not performance is also BS. At part throttle the mapping aims for economy, at wide open throttle the mapping aims for performance.

With electronic throttles the mapping is even changed from economy to performance based on the rate of change in pedal position.

The only useful thing a flash of an ecu can do on a standard car is up the boost.

 

[reneg8or]

This is something I have been researching for quite a while now and extensively so. Thirty years ago, I made modifications and also converted cars to bigger engines. Many LandCruiser owners (TLC200 is built in China, by the way) have ruined driveshafts because of chip tuning. Leave the var as per manufacturer's specs. You can only ruin components such as the engine itself, drivetrain, etc. Many times, the transmission components are not designed for the added power. Mercedes-Benz has this fantastic OM642 3-litre Diesel engine used in various applications, including C/E/S/ML/GL/G-classes and is rated at different kW and torque outpouts, right up to 195kW and 620Nm.

If you drive a 140kW version, you cannot just install a new chip tp0 up power to 195kW, as the pistons used are not the same and you risk ruining that excellent engine. Some may remember the Jeep Commander Sport which also had this high-output version of the same OM642 engine. Chipping your Grand Cherokee may see you damage your car's engine.


Advice from seasoned professional engineers, as well as manufacturers, is to always stick to standard specification. Otherwise, be prepared to pay more for fuel, shorten your car's engine life or even risk imminent failure.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I would guess that 5/5 golf r or S3s can get to 250kw with 3 - 4 mods.
They 2.0T and they can manage it with the standard brake setups, strong piston rods, injectors and standard turbo.

But for how long as opposed to an untuned one?

That being said the R and S3 engines are a bit stronger and better prepared for such high power outputs.

My point about the brakes and suspension etc is that often these highly modded cars become straight line rockets and don't go around corners very well.

Or rather their increase in power doesn't amount to their lap times increasing dramatically.

There are good guys who will tune within reason with very little to worry about. Then there are guys that only care for power figures at the expense of everything else.

Personally I just want a better noise.

 

[Haldex]

But for how long as opposed to an untuned one?

That being said the R and S3 engines are a bit stronger and better prepared for such high power outputs.

My point about the brakes and suspension etc is that often these highly modded cars become straight line rockets and don't go around corners very well.

Or rather their increase in power doesn't amount to their lap times increasing dramatically.

There are good guys who will tune within reason with very little to worry about. Then there are guys that only care for power figures at the expense of everything else.

Personally I just want a better noise.

We can argue about it for days lol.
With good branded mods there won't have any unexpected failures. Certain components might fail when going up to stage 2 but there's a up rated replacement easily available. Eg inter cooler pipes or diverter valves but those are expected and cost about R500 for a stronger product. If looked after and serviced the car can go on aslong as the standard model.
From the VW stable it's quite easy to find the right parts as most are interchangeable and available especially the Audi S and RS parts.

Modifying your car does become an addiction and if you do go stage 2, you might have to upgrade your brakes, again not so difficult if you have a VW or Audi. The S brakes are more than adequate and can cost about R2000 - R3000. Not bad considering your software was R4000. Theres also tons of decent after market brakes available. As for suspension, Eibach, koni or h&r is more than adequate for track days and you're able to throw it into corners easily. We also getting a lot of coilovers in SA at the moment for under R10 000, that's with height and damper settings.

My comments are for cars with stage 2 software and hardware mods.
A normal car can handle stage 1 software quite easily if done by a reputable company.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah not really arguing.

My comments was really just about doing it properly than trying to go as cheap as possible.

Also not really too bothered with the "drag" scene. If it can't go around corners faster its pointless in my book.

 

[RiaX]

hmmm well that being said my car does need more torque

 

[Swa]

When I hear concepts like stages I'm wary of the person not living in a real world. You do the mods you want and can afford. It's not a game where you have to unlock a stage lol.

 

[RiaX]

When I hear concepts like stages I'm wary of the person not living in a real world. You do the mods you want and can afford. It's not a game where you have to unlock a stage lol.

this is a very valid point. Though you cant just do upgrades without changing certain parts, some parts are made to cope with the standard output and will not manage the an increased output - I think this is where stages come from but yeah I dunno WTF decides what stage is where.

Its different when you go to alpine or ac schitzner or amg (old days) where you could pay for stage upgrades. Stage one is like exhaust suspension lightening etc then stage two is an engine kit no idea what stage 3 is suppose to be (maybe strap a rocket on the car)

This is where I have a problem understanding modding as im new to it im trying to learn before I actually start and I have no idea where to get information from