How to sort crime out?

marine1

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Guys instead of moaning lets see what we can do.

I have listed some areas I think might help. Let's see what other ideas you have and maybe we can put together some kind of letter to forward to the gvt?? Lets try be constructive and maybe it will get us somewhere


1) Give the officers on the ground the resources they need. They need guns, bullet proof vests, uniforms, cars.
2) Make sure every major city has a helicopter up in the air every shift responding to any and all crimes.
3) Increase the number of specialists. Fingerprints and photographers. Forensics is a key issue and must be regarded as one of the most important aspects of police work.
4) Blood must be able to be drawn from any hospital at any time and it must be a priority with reference to drunk driving.
5) Officers must have at least a matric and a driver’s license as well as increase the initial training and change it back to full time training.
6) Officers must pass physical every 6 months as well as competency shoot every month. If you too fat or cannot shoot then you got to an office job until you meet the requirement.
7) Put performance quotas in place on both detectives and officers. Arrests must go up but convictions have to follow through. -?
8) Increase salaries; make it attractive to people leaving school.
9) Increase training. Training is the most important aspect. They must know the law and know what to do in a situation.
10) Increase manpower. There must be at least 1 cop to every 50-100citizens.
11) Get rid of Section 49 of CPA(criminal procedure act) - ?
12) Make laws harsher and jail terms longer.
13) Make sure that cases are prosecuted in a quick fashion. Delays are no good. If a case is struck off the roll, it must be investigated and the person responsible must be dealt with in the harshest manner.
14) Enforce the law of subpoenas. If you miss it, then there is jail time.
15) Get a unit to watch the police that monitor corruption at the highest level as well. Corruption must be dealt with in the harshest manner. Set some examples. If convicted of corruption, make it a lengthy jail term. NO EXCEPTIONS
16) Upgrade police infrastructure – computer programs and radio systems. They are from 1976 and in need of upgrades-no jokes.
17) Have a unit that monitors cases from the beginning to final prosecution. Therefore if a case goes missing or something like that then they can take action.
18) Make station commissioners directly responsible for reducing crime in the area. If they do not perform, they leave.
19) Release crime stats every month to the public.
20) Make jails harder to live- no TV, phone, hard labour. Make them build roads
21) GVT must start setting an example.
22) In stead of alienating the public get them actively involved.
23) Make petty crimes more of an offence e.g.: drinking in public and so on.
24) Get our forensics dept. up to scratch and get the best people to do the job no matter what it takes.
25) Make accountability very important. From start to finish of a case.
26) Make the paper trail less – use computers that can be monitored by senior level. Restore the specialized units to what they once were. -?
27) Start working with and not against the scorpions
28) Get rid of the senior management of the SAPS as they are doing a pathetic job.
29) Make it an enticing job. Start advertising on TV, Radio and Newspapers. Must be attractive to be a policeman.
30) Get rid of AA in the SAPS. Start getting people there who can uplift the service. -?
31) -Leitmotif : Enforce strict penalties for any officer who refuses to report a case. Treat it as corruption, and ensure that the public knows how to go about reporting noncompliance to whatever body monitors corruption.
32) -Leitmotif : Adopt the Castle doctrine.
Force the CFR to speed up applications for gun licenses.
Review the CFR's process for granting and denying licenses, and prevent arbitrary denial of licenses.
Tighten controls on confiscated/handed in firearms.
Pay compensation for firearms handed in. This is required by the Constitution
33) Xarog: I think criminals should be required to do some kind of studying while they are in prison. Might help them get an honest job when they get out.
34) BobbyMac: Maybe computer literacy should be a start. Or even just literacy. Too many people in this country cannot read and comprehend any form of literature.
35 Highflyer GP : Wikileaks tries to address the problem of corruption by allowing lower level employees to anonymously report corruption scandals involving upper level management.
36) Highflyer GP : well people need to want to be a cop. If they're offered better incentives, they should be required to undergo certain academic training as well (apart from basic literacy, they should be fully competent and know what's required of them).
 
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The obvious one relevant to the guys here is make broadband accessible and affordable to the masses especially to rural areas where people can uplift themselves and start small online businesses and things so that they don't have to resort to crime.
 
Focuses on transforming the police service. that's all well, but...

One cop to 40 citizens is a bit much. 1 to 150 would be better, and that's doubling the size of the police force.
Medical and competency shoot should be handled as one re-evaluation process, once every six months. Otherwise there'd be way too much workload for the evaluators.
Rather than putting a quota of arrests in place, rather look at a ratio of arrests to convictions and cases reported in the area.
Enforce strict penalties for any officer who refuses to report a case. Treat it as corruption, and ensure that the public knows how to go about reporting noncompliance to whatever body monitors corruption.
Detectives are a specialised field as well. We need more and they need training.

On a more personal note:

Adopt the Castle doctrine.
Force the CFR to speed up applications for gun licenses.
Review the CFR's process for granting and denying licenses, and prevent arbitrary denial of licenses.
Tighten controls on confiscated/handed in firearms.
Pay compensation for firearms handed in. This is required by the Constitution.
 
I have a problem with a few of these :

7) Put performance quotas in place on both detectives and officers. Arrests must go up but convictions have to follow through.
That encourages cops to look for places that they can make bogus charges for petty crime in order to meet their quota. I really don't think we need a bunch of cops scouring the streets looking for someone who litters.

I don't think performance quotas will help deal with the big crimes such as robbery and murder and rape.

I'd rather the police improve the conviction rate for crimes that are reported to them.

11) Get rid of Section 49 of CPA(criminal procedure act)
And what does that state?

15) Get a unit to watch the police that monitor corruption at the highest level as well. Corruption must be dealt with in the harshest manner. Set some examples. If convicted of corruption, make it a lengthy jail term. NO EXCEPTIONS
I agree very strongly with this.

20) Make jails harder to live- no TV, phone, hard labour. Make them build roads
I think criminals should be required to do some kind of studying while they are in prison. Might help them get an honest job when they get out.

23) Make petty crimes more of an offence e.g.: drinking in public and so on.
I disagree with this. I don't want to live in a country where you're fined R10 000 because you dropped a piece of paper. There IS such a thing as taking law enforcement too far.

26) Make the paper trail less – use computers that can be monitored by senior level. Restore the specialized units to what they once were.
A paper trail is one of the things that helps to keep departments honest. It's easier to 'lose' a computer record than it is to destroy a piece of paper locked in a secure filing cabinet.

Adopt the Castle doctrine.
Absolutely.
 
Good points!!!

Maybe we should have the primary categories in the crime reduction mission as;
1. Prevent Crime – focus on strategies to help gain control of the situation so that it doesn’t escalate
2. Investigate Crime -
3. Enforce the law -
4. Support the Police-

We can then move the points into different categories that would make it easier for ourselves and the government to plan and act accordingly.
 
The obvious one relevant to the guys here is make broadband accessible and affordable to the masses especially to rural areas where people can uplift themselves and start small online businesses and things so that they don't have to resort to crime.
Maybe computer literacy should be a start. Or even just literacy. Too many people in this country cannot read and comprehend any form of literature.
 
Maybe computer literacy should be a start. Or even just literacy. Too many people in this country cannot read and comprehend any form of literature.

I agree...not many people have access to education and the ones that do have crappy schools and very low standard education. I think that the root of all crime lies in the fact that many offenders are illiterate or have just not been given a chance in life to better themselves. A good education system could go a long long way in rooting out crime. <-- just my personal opinion
 
I don't see how any of this is going to help if the police themselves are apathetic and corrupt to the core. We need police that are motivated to protect citizens and bust their corrupt buddies in the force.
Without that basic will power it just ain't going to work.

I know that there are lots of policemen/policewomen who take their job seriously but there are far too many in management positions who don't give a rats ass about the wellbeing of the citizens nor the corruption that's going on in their own departments.
I'm talking about the ones who are educated and get decent salaries and sit behind desks all day yet are corrupt themselves or just don't give a damn about the corruption going on under their supervision.

It doesn't matter how many good ideas, quotas and money you throw at the problem - it will all come to nothing if there isn't a change in heart throughout the police force.
 
I don't see how any of this is going to help if the police themselves are apathetic and corrupt to the core. We need police that are motivated to protect citizens and bust their corrupt buddies in the force.
Without that basic will power it just ain't going to work.

I know that there are lots of policemen/policewomen who take their job seriously but there are far too many in management positions who don't give a rats ass about the wellbeing of the citizens nor the corruption that's going on in their own departments.

It doesn't matter how many good ideas, quotas and money you throw at the problem - it will all come to nothing if there isn't a change in heart throughout the police force.
Wikileaks tries to address the problem of corruption by allowing lower level employees to anonymously report corruption scandals involving upper level management.
 
Making people want to work for the SAP is the answer. By equipping them, paying them and making their jobs meaningful again - ie not subject to the whims of the next corrupt official - you restore their will to do good.
 
I think one of the major problems with the SAP is lack of manpower, which is a result of lack of incentives. If somebody's job entails putting their lives on the line, they should at least be offered good packages. Offering top deals to idiots like Selebi or McBride while the ordinary officer out in the field earns R4k per month doesn't help the cause.
 
Giving corrupt cops more money is like poring petrol on a fire.
I think guys like McBride already get paid way too much.

Who's going to straighten the police out anyway? Themselves?
 
Well people need to want to be a cop. If they're offered better incentives, they should be required to undergo certain academic training as well (apart from basic literacy, they should be fully competent and know what's required of them). I've come across cops who are barely literate.Try bribing a cop in the USA and see what happens ;)
 
11) Get rid of Section 49 of CPA(criminal procedure act)
The amendment or the original?

There were way too many crimes listed for which there could no justification for killing someone just to prevent them escaping. I have no problem with the police shooting someone who is known to be dangerous or sought for violent crime. On the other hand our police were far too trigger happy in the bad old days.

12) Make laws harsher
Police state?

23) Make petty crimes more of an offence e.g.: drinking in public and so on.
Does this really make a difference to serious crime or is it just a waste of valuable resources?

20) Make jails harder to live- no TV, phone, hard labour. Make them build roads
If you think jail is an easy holiday camp you should try spending some time in one. Nothing wrong with putting the inmates to good use though. Train them and use them as cheap labour.

I don't know how they'd achieve this, but a serious effort needs to be made to break the gangs in jail. And prevent minor offenders from coming out of jail as hardened criminals.

30) Get rid of AA in the SAPS. Start getting people there who can uplift the service.
Affirmative action without quotas is workable. If you have a position to fill and two equal candidates why not give preference to someone who may have been kept out of the job in the past?
 
Does this really make a difference to serious crime or is it just a waste of valuable resources?

isnt this what the New York mayor did to "clean up" his city ? People got punished for petty crimes so they wouldnt even think of doing the bigger crimes.

Found the article:

What did make a difference was enforcing existing laws and making it clear the era of anarchy was over. The most famous example was the resurrection of New York, where Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and Police Commissioner William Bratton cracked down on graffiti artists, turnstile jumpers and other perpetrators of minor crimes. This "broken windows" approach was designed to restore a sense of order; just as unfixed windows fuel perceptions of buildings abandoned to squatters, unaddressed crimes fuel perceptions of streets abandoned to criminals. "If you deal with the graffiti and the other little offenses," said Rutgers University criminologist George Kelling, who devised the broken windows theory along with political scientist James Q. Wilson, "you send a strong message that you're not going to tolerate the big offenses."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/10/AR2006021001790.html
 
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Fighting Crime and Corruption in New Orleans

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=119&subsecID=213&contentID=2155

Amid the hoopla about crime reduction in New York City, an equally impressive story has sometimes gone overlooked 1,200 miles to the south. In New Orleans, a city long known for its Big Easy lifestyle, a concerted effort at police reform and crime reduction over the past six years has achieved considerable success -- and spawned lessons for other cities.

Despite a reputation for corruption and laissez-faire policies, New Orleans has used smart politics, public-private partnerships, federal funds, and openness to outside help to create one of the leading reform stories of the 1990s. Labeled in the mid-1990s as "Murder Capital, U.S.A.," New Orleans now claims one of the fastest dropping crime rates in the nation despite a recent upsurge in murders. In addition, under the leadership of a new police superintendent imported from Washington, D.C., using methods borrowed from New York and personnel lent by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the New Orleans Police Department (NOPD) has dramatically reshaped and reformed itself from a vortex of vice to a tightly managed organization with a powerful Public Integrity Division. The result may be a model for the 2000s.

Between 1994 and 1999, the murder rate fell 63 percent, assaults dropped 60 percent, and armed robberies were down 49 percent. A recent quality of life survey conducted by the University of New Orleans found that local voters feel safer than at any time since 1986; the percentage of voters who believe that crime is decreasing has gone up in the past six years from 1 percent to 57 percent.
 
Enforce strict penalties for any officer who refuses to report a case. Treat it as corruption, and ensure that the public knows how to go about reporting noncompliance to whatever body monitors corruption.
Detectives are a specialised field as well. We need more and they need training.



Adopt the Castle doctrine.
Force the CFR to speed up applications for gun licenses.
Review the CFR's process for granting and denying licenses, and prevent arbitrary denial of licenses.
Tighten controls on confiscated/handed in firearms.
Pay compensation for firearms handed in. This is required by the Constitution.
Agreed will add it to my original post
 
I have a problem with a few of these :


That encourages cops to look for places that they can make bogus charges for petty crime in order to meet their quota. I really don't think we need a bunch of cops scouring the streets looking for someone who litters.
Fair enough but there has to be motivation to do the work.

I don't think performance quotas will help deal with the big crimes such as robbery and murder and rape.
I dont know, in cities where petty crime is serious, it is a known fact that big crime drops.

I'd rather the police improve the conviction rate for crimes that are reported to them.
Agreed 100%


And what does that state?
It basically is the issue of when to use lethal force and it basically states that one can only use deadly force if ones life is in iommidiate danger. I know most of you will have issue with this but it will be a deterent as it was before this law was amended.


I think criminals should be required to do some kind of studying while they are in prison. Might help them get an honest job when they get out.
Agreed 100%
 
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