How to sort crime out?

Fair enough but there has to be motivation to do the work.
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Agreed.

I dont know, in cities where petty crime is serious, it is a known fact that big crime drops.
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Well, I certainly don't want to live in a country where a grafitti artist gets sent to prison for months.

It basically is the issue of when to use lethal force and it basically states that one can only use deadly force if ones life is in iommidiate danger. I know most of you will have issue with this but it will be a deterent as it was before this law was amended.
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It's not worth it imo. Eventually the cops will gun down someone that is innocent by mistake. I'd rather risk that extra chance of being the victim of crime rather than worrying about when the next unwarranted death will be caused by a policeman.
 
noxibox said:
The amendment or the original?

There were way too many crimes listed for which there could no justification for killing someone just to prevent them escaping. I have no problem with the police shooting someone who is known to be dangerous or sought for violent crime. On the other hand our police were far too trigger happy in the bad old days.
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Agreed has to be monitored.




noxibox said:
Does this really make a difference to serious crime or is it just a waste of valuable resources?
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Has been proven to work.


noxibox said:
If you think jail is an easy holiday camp you should try spending some time in one. Nothing wrong with putting the inmates to good use though. Train them and use them as cheap labour.
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Even our minsters agree that jail here is not hard enough.

noxibox said:
I don't know how they'd achieve this, but a serious effort needs to be made to break the gangs in jail. And prevent minor offenders from coming out of jail as hardened criminals.
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Agreed but there are gangs in every jail in the world.


noxibox said:
Affirmative action without quotas is workable. If you have a position to fill and two equal candidates why not give preference to someone who may have been kept out of the job in the past?
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Agree
 
DigitalSoldier said:
isnt this what the New York mayor did to "clean up" his city ? People got punished for petty crimes so they wouldnt even think of doing the bigger crimes.

Found the article:

What did make a difference was enforcing existing laws and making it clear the era of anarchy was over. The most famous example was the resurrection of New York, where Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and Police Commissioner William Bratton cracked down on graffiti artists, turnstile jumpers and other perpetrators of minor crimes. This "broken windows" approach was designed to restore a sense of order; just as unfixed windows fuel perceptions of buildings abandoned to squatters, unaddressed crimes fuel perceptions of streets abandoned to criminals. "If you deal with the graffiti and the other little offenses," said Rutgers University criminologist George Kelling, who devised the broken windows theory along with political scientist James Q. Wilson, "you send a strong message that you're not going to tolerate the big offenses."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/10/AR2006021001790.html
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Correct!!
 
Maybe someone is listening out there and can take some advice from us.
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Sorry, but I seriously doubt it dude.

Crime is a different type of issue in SA. Here it is a political issue...

This is how the government sees crime...

1. Crime is caused by joblessness.
2. We (the government) are too incompetent to create jobs.
3. Therefore criminals are not to blame for their actions.
4. Criminals are the victims of our (government's) incompetence.
5. The police force was previously an instrument of oppression.
6. We (the government) have therefore effectively destroyed the police force.
7. Oops, in doing so, we have also destroyed the only effective deterrent to crime.
8. This is a small price to pay for freedom.
9. It is better to be a victim of crime (alive or dead) so long as you have your freedom.
10. Freedom Day celebrations are more important than crime statistics.
 
Milano I agree with you but instead of me moaning all the time which I do as I am worried about SA, I thought maybe we can all agree on some points and maybe just maybe someone will think hey these might actually work and someone might implement them. Wishfull thinking but...
 
I wonder if President Mbeki knows about this site and maybe reading some of these comments ?

From what I have heard the President loves browsing the web for information.
 
as I am worried about SA
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I know where you are coming from and I commend you for still caring.

There was a time in my life when I once cared.

For me it no longer matters. Trying to change our destiny in Africa is like banging your head against a brick wall.

What will be, will be.
 
From what I have heard the President loves browsing the web for information.
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Last I heard he was capped. Yeah, bummer.
 
Sorry, but your ideas and comments are all wonderfull and huggy, but they each and everyone of them cost money. And there is no way the current goverment is going to do themselves out of coin just to keep the rest of the public safe.

Listen to Thabo's speech tomorrow and see what I mean
 
South Africa needs an enemy. A country without an enemy is going down the drain pretty fast.
Not an enemy from within like crime and corruption, an external enemy that is always ready to attack SA.
 
John H, thats the dumbest thing I've heard. No offense but why on earth would SA need more problems from outside? You seriously think it'll spur government into getting off their asses and implementing strategies to keep us safe?
 
That may be the dumbest thing you have ever heard, but if you study and read some more, you may just agree with me.
 
No John H.. we like in a different world now, we don't NEED enemies to prosper anymore...
 
Nineteen eighty-four... oceania, eurasia and eastasia.
Rogue trooper... norts and southers.

An enemy is useful to keep people obedient. Not to improve the health of a country. Enemies are an expediency for political leaders.
 
0) Remember that the police can only *respond* to crime. Empower citizens to act against crime, treat the good guys as heros and the criminals as such, and follow through so that the police force is seen as being effective and trustworthy.
 
feo said:
John H, thats the dumbest thing I've heard.
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There is sense in what John H is saying.

What would Superman do if there were no bad guys? You can't have a superhero without also having a super-bad guy.

That's why the superdudes can only kill their arch-enemy in the movies, not in the serials :-)

Koos
 
John H said:
South Africa needs an enemy. A country without an enemy is going down the drain pretty fast.
Not an enemy from within like crime and corruption, an external enemy that is always ready to attack SA.
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Not sure I would agree. When is the last time Switzerland had an enemy? What about Finland? The Netherlands? Luxembourg?

All those countries are in the top 20 richest nations along with plenty more without obvious enemies. In fact of the top 10 listed http://www.aneki.com/richest.html only the US (and perhaps Canada) has any obvious 'enemy'.

EDIT - my recommendation - communities need to get involved by forming Neighbourhood Watch programmes and these initiatives need to be encouraged and supported by the police.
 
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These are all good points and regarding the funding?

Well government should fund these changes, take away a few of the government officials holiday homes, smart cars and private planes. I don't understand where all this countries taxes and so goes to? Government don't have much to show for it.

If this countries crime decreases everyone scores as the country will be more attractive to tourists and foreign investors. This means that more Job opportunities (less people on the street to do crime). Its a complete cycle the one effects the other, you just have to look at the big picture.

*Offer any police man a reward for busting a corrupt cop (with solid proof)
 
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