Hybrid Vehicles

ic

ic

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Which hybrid models are currently being sold in SA - e.g. Toyota & Honda, what should I avoid and why, what about the cost of servicing and warranties?

I cannot wait 2 years for the next best hybrid to roll off a production line somewhere - I need to buy a new car ASAP, obviously I'm wary of the petrol price and would prefer to invest in a hybrid now - petrol is costing me a fortune ATM just to get to work & back. Obviously I need a vehicle that's reliable, and that works well in bumper to bumper traffic without overheating all the time [sorry JK8, I'm not a fan of VWs].
 
supersunbird said:
Why not a fuel efficient normal car?
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I want something new that has a potential resale value when petrol & diesel prices become prohibitively high.

PS: it's a pity that LPG is quite expensive in SA, and also available hardly anywhere.
 
Resale value? The reason SAs second hand car prices are so F'd. At least its getting better these days due to low demand and lots of stock.

And I doubt a current hybrid will have much resale value when the nextgen ones come out with better batteries and technologies.

Maybe it would be smarter to buy the cheaper petrol car (R150 000?) now and save the money you would be spending paying of the expensive hybrid (??? dont know price) and then when you buy the hybrid in a few years time you use that saved up money.

I think you just want a hybrid no matter what?
 
supersunbird said:
Resale value? The reason SAs second hand car prices are so F'd. At least its getting better these days due to low demand and lots of stock.

And I doubt a current hybrid will have much resale value when the nextgen ones come out with better batteries and technologies.

Maybe it would be smarter to buy the cheaper petrol car (R150 000?) now and save the money you would be spending paying of the expensive hybrid (??? dont know price) and then when you buy the hybrid in a few years time you use that saved up money.

I think you just want a hybrid no matter what?
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Not necessarily - I'm still considering non-hybrids due to the current steep price of hybrids, but I've only just started my investigation and I'm not an impulsive buyer - but I'm not going to wait 2+ years, so I want to consider all my options, and I suspect that hybrids [even the older models] will hold their value better than non-hybrids in a couple of years time primarily due to better [combined] fuel consumption than non-hybrid vehicles.
 
I know the VW Jetta 1.9TDi [2002] can give over 20km/l. My brother-law has one, and they traveled this week, 3ppl in the car + aircon, +-140kmh, got 17.xx km/l. At 540 km when they got here, the tank was still above half.

I must agree, im also not a VW fan, but this is just excelent fuel economy.
BTW, i think the Audi A4 2002/3 model is also a 1.9TDi. They look better than the jeatta's.
 
spiderz said:
I know the VW Jetta 1.9TDi [2002] can give over 20km/l. My brother-law has one, and they traveled this week, 3ppl in the car + aircon, +-140kmh, got 17.xx km/l. At 540 km when they got here, the tank was still above half.

I must agree, im also not a VW fan, but this is just excelent fuel economy.
BTW, i think the Audi A4 2002/3 model is also a 1.9TDi. They look better than the jeatta's.
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Unfortunately there isn't any 'open road' when stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic, and not much scope for saving on petrol or diesel consumption when stuck in heavy traffic, the traffic situation is only going to get much worse, and I'm not in a position [yet] where I can sell and move closer to work - I am seriously considering it though, but it will be some time before I can actually do that.
 
Choice no.1 - Get a Vespa... i can see you cruising around on a vespa. Man, it would suit you.

Choice no.2 - LPG gas.... Convert your car to this...(although last i checked, price for the LPG is way to high in South Africa (much cheaper oversseas - but have a look anyway)
http://f23.parsimony.net/forum51699/messages/1191.htm
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=1566&fArticleId=4480658

Choice no.3 - Run..... No costs involved except probably having to get up very early and maybe need to buy new shoes more often.

Choice no.4 - Hitchhike... bit risky this one, but it is an option.

Choice no.5 - Change careers and work from home.

Choice no.6 - And last but not least, dont bother working.
 
Lexus GS Hybrid?
Some might say that some Hybid cars are no more than a marketing ploy.

prius proves a gas guzzler, BMW 520d more economic

If I wanted to go economic I'd buy a low cc petrol (1.1l, 1.3l), or diesel engine. All depends on what kind of performance you want. A Honda Jazz or equiv. would be more economic than a Lexus GS Hybrid.

Hope that's a tad helpful
 
The efficiency depends on how you'll be traveling. For my daily trip it could very well work to drive a Prius. Plenty of 0-60/70/80 for 50 minutes, and at least 10 minutes traffic crawling. Perfect for a light car or a Hybrid. No highways. If you add highways to the mix it edges towards turbo-diesels quite quick, and the actual weight of the car goes out the window if you do a lot of cruising.

Either way, current Hybrids won't be competing well with the future 'alternatives' anyway. A large part of the Hybrid costs will be to replace the batteries, which will drag that second-hand price down. The Prius isn't running the lithiums the next gen is likely to run, and the gen after that you'd have a better energy storage again. It could make the Prius a novelty with no value pretty quick.
 
ic said:
Which hybrid models are currently being sold in SA - e.g. Toyota & Honda, what should I avoid and why, what about the cost of servicing and warranties?
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As Far as i know there is the New Lexus, and the older Toyota Pruis. I dont know about the lexus, but the pruis was only available on a long term rental ( you couldn't own one )

There is a program in the states called GM in my Driveway, which is used to introduce GM hybrids to the general public at large. I believe a similar program will be available in SA.

I'm holding thumbs for the Chevy Volt.
 
A Prius is the most affordable hybrid locally, at about R280k. The Lexus hybrids are a lot more expensive, although the GS450h is very yummy.

There's a new Prius coming out next year sometime. In the US there are 10 year old models with over 200 000 miles on the clock, and their resale is pretty high too due to super reliability. Even their NimH batteries seem to last pretty long.
 
ic, the models available atm (prius etc), have a worse fuel efficiency than some of the small diesel cars. Hybrids don't make any sense financially which ever way you spin it. The next gen hybrids might though. (I think the emissions of the prius lose out against some of the diesels too...but don't quote me on that)

As for resale value, its difficult to judge because there is no really active 2nd hand market. By the time you sell, the next gen plug-in hybrids will be out...and your resale value is going to suck.

The hybrid is also going to cost you a *serious* fortune too for the amount of "car" you get because the batteries are so expensive.
 
HavocXphere said:
ic, the models available atm (prius etc), have a worse fuel efficiency than some of the small diesel cars. Hybrids don't make any sense financially which ever way you spin it. The next gen hybrids might though. (I think the emissions of the prius lose out against some of the diesels too...but don't quote me on that)

As for resale value, its difficult to judge because there is no really active 2nd hand market. By the time you sell, the next gen plug-in hybrids will be out...and your resale value is going to suck.

The hybrid is also going to cost you a *serious* fortune too for the amount of "car" you get because the batteries are so expensive.
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Why don't they make sense financially? As I just said, in the US there are Priuses with very high mileage that haven't had to have their batteries replaced.

Also a diesel car makes more nasty emissions (NOx and partilulates mostly) than a petrol hybrid, so a diesel with comparable fuel consumption to a hybrid will be more polluting. Diesel also contains more carbon per litre than petrol, so burning a litre of diesel emits more CO2 than a litre of petties.
 
BlueCollar said:
Why don't they make sense financially?
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The initial price is much higher. (About 1.5 afaik)

The fuel consumption depends on who you listen to. The yanks say the Prius has the best fuel consumption. But if you read the wiki then you find things like
Auto Express magazine performed independent fuel efficiency tests, on public roads, on a number of hatchbacks, and in August 2007 published their list of the ten most efficient. The Prius achieved 10th place in the list, returning 41.5 mpg–imp (6.81 L/100 km / 34.6 mpg–U.S.). A Citroën C4 Coupé 1.6 HDi got 1st place with 49.6 mpg–imp (5.7 L/100 km / 41.3 mpg–U.S.).[57]
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Eleven diesel-powered cars, some of them smaller, have a better fuel-efficiency (by fuel volume) than the Prius for combined use.[50][51]
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Consumer tests have shown petrol-electric hybrid cars in general are little more fuel-efficient (by fuel volume) than top of the range diesels.
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The resale value is going to nose-dive imo, Services cost will probably be higher and the batteries might have to be replaced at some stage.

So you pay a huge premium for something that is at best marginally more efficientwith a poor resale value and possibly huge expense of the battery replacement.

I my eyes, one of the other eleven diesels that beat the Prius in the one study are a better bet financially.

Afaik most of the pollutants you talk about NOx etc are eliminated by modern catalysts. The exhaust fumes are mainly carbon dioxide and monoxide.
 
I would go for one of the small diesel cars. My father in law just got the new Corsa, he previously had the old one. The new one is a 1.3 turbo and is as fast as the old 1.8, it does about 3-4 l/100km... and despite what was said earlier in the thread Diesel is cleaner. Its only when you have an old truck that its not.

The main reason why I would go for diesel is that when they bring out bioDiesel in this country the cost of fuel will drop nicely and its even cleaner! If you do a lot of driving Diesel is the way to go.
 
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