Hypothetical Abortion Scenario

Ancalagon said:
Doesn't matter. You can sign whatever document you want, it won't hold up in court. Seen it time and time again.

Sperm donors are different, if done via a sperm bank. There is legal protection for that.

For anything private, it won't hold up in court. In fact, if you asked a lawyer to help you draft an agreement, they'd probably tell you this.
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You are dead wrong.

My brother literally did exactly what I stated.

Sperm donors does not have to go through a sperm bank. You can get a friend to impregnate you as a sperm donor, this happens almost as often as going through sperm banks, completely legal if documented legally which is exactly the option I suggest here.

He got his girlfriend pregnant and she was happy to sign the kid away as a single parent without his involvement.

He ended up as a sperm donor, not a father or a parent.

This is legally binding however you need the mother to be consistent with the story from the start so if the mother is a total btch about it then the father is out of options.
 
Ancalagon said:
I think the way it should work is that if the man suggests an abortion, and the woman refuses, then the man cannot be obligated to pay for child support. That, IMHO, would be fair.

But that will never happen.
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That would be fair for the man only. The kid will invariably suffer with only one parent having a vested financial obligation.

So, as you say, it will never happen.

It's condemnable in every sense of the word since there are times when women use subterfuge to get pregnant and the man wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and subsequent kid, but **** logic and morality, the law does what it feels we should abide by.
 
Ancalagon said:
I think the way it should work is that if the man suggests an abortion, and the woman refuses, then the man cannot be obligated to pay for child support. That, IMHO, would be fair.

But that will never happen.
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That would be fair yes, in cases that would warrant such, like the father not being in any financial state to support the child but that would be in an ideal world. In the real world, cases like these normally arise because either one or both parties failed to act responsibly and the pregnancy would therefore be seen as a mistake bringing on the counter argument such as:
1. Should a "life" be aborted because of a mistake that could have been avoided
2. Should one be absolved of their responsibilities because of a mistake that could have been avoided

So ya, probably will never happen so best to keep it wrapped up.
 
John Tempus said:
You are dead wrong.

My brother literally did exactly what I stated.

Sperm donors does not have to go through a sperm bank. You can get a friend to impregnate you as a sperm donor, this happens almost as often as going through sperm banks, completely legal if documented legally which is exactly the option I suggest here.

He got his girlfriend pregnant and she was happy to sign the kid away as a single parent without his involvement.

He ended up as a sperm donor, not a father or a parent.

This is legally binding however you need the mother to be consistent with the story from the start so if the mother is a total btch about it then the father is out of options.
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Doesn't matter what your brother signed.

If the mother took him to court, he would be screwed.

This has happened countless times.

He just got lucky, that's all, that she didn't take him to court.

You can't sign a contract to agree to murder someone or steal something and you can't sign a contract exempting you from responsibility for a human life. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is.

There are countless examples of this happening. I'll search for some.
 
acidrain said:
That would be fair yes, in cases that would warrant such, like the father not being in any financial state to support the child but that would be in an ideal world. In the real world, cases like these normally arise because either one or both parties failed to act responsibly and the pregnancy would therefore be seen as a mistake bringing on the counter argument such as:
1. Should a "life" be aborted because of a mistake that could have been avoided
2. Should one be absolved of their responsibilities because of a mistake that could have been avoided

So ya, probably will never happen so best to keep it wrapped up.
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Depends on what you believe. If you're pro-life, then yeah. And you should find out whether a girl is pro-life before having sex.

If you're pro-choice, then surely having an abortion is only a little more complicated than the morning after pill? It is a mistake, yes, but you can still correct it.
 
John Tempus said:
You are dead wrong.

My brother literally did exactly what I stated.

Sperm donors does not have to go through a sperm bank. You can get a friend to impregnate you as a sperm donor, this happens almost as often as going through sperm banks, completely legal if documented legally which is exactly the option I suggest here.

He got his girlfriend pregnant and she was happy to sign the kid away as a single parent without his involvement.

He ended up as a sperm donor, not a father or a parent.

This is legally binding however you need the mother to be consistent with the story from the start so if the mother is a total btch about it then the father is out of options.
Click to expand...

There
And one from the UK
 
Ancalagon said:
You can't sign a contract to agree to murder someone or steal something
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I'm pretty sure that if you sign a contract with the owner of an item allowing you to "steal" it, it is by definition, no longer theft and therefore not illegal. There would only be legal problems if there was, say, intent/actions to commit insurance fraud post the "theft".
 
John Tempus said:
You are dead wrong.

My brother literally did exactly what I stated.

Sperm donors does not have to go through a sperm bank. You can get a friend to impregnate you as a sperm donor, this happens almost as often as going through sperm banks, completely legal if documented legally which is exactly the option I suggest here.

He got his girlfriend pregnant and she was happy to sign the kid away as a single parent without his involvement.

He ended up as a sperm donor, not a father or a parent.

This is legally binding however you need the mother to be consistent with the story from the start so if the mother is a total btch about it then the father is out of options.
Click to expand...

Nope, not entirely wrong. Sperm donors are not involved in the actual conception which is one of the reasons why they have protection. Your argument does not consider the right of the child. The child is entitled to maintenance from his parents and as such no agreement precludes either party from reassessing the situation based on the needs of the child. Your brother obviously has an amicable agreement and it will remain so until such time as the circumstance changes but he is by no means just a sperm donor.
 
quovadis said:
Nope, not entirely wrong. Sperm donors are not involved in the actual conception which is one of the reasons why they have protection. Your argument does not consider the right of the child. The child is entitled to maintenance from his parents and as such no agreement precludes either party from reassessing the situation based on the needs of the child. Your brother obviously has an amicable agreement and it will remain so until such time as the circumstance changes but he is by no means just a sperm donor.
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Do you mind reading what I am stating. My brother went through this process so I am well aware of the legalities.

Lmao, the rights of the child does not exist until legal age. I can see you have never gone through the process that sperm donors go through. If the mother feels like telling the kid then its up to her but until the kid reach legal age they have no say in the matter but I guess you somehow decided that they do.

Everyone commenting on this have no idea what they are talking about, you can become a legal sperm donor in person via regular way of insemination ie. SEX and still not form part of the family once the child is born.

Why the hell everyone is arguing against this is so retarded, this is a legal process that is done every day worldwide.

As I stated from the start if both parties agree to the terms of the conception and birth then the process is legally binding. The issue can and does sometimes come in even in the case of sperm donors when one of the "parents" , usually the mother, goes back on their word post birth and then it becomes complicated.

So if you are lucky enough and the mother can agree on mutual terms and stick to it, then you should be able to take the route as just a sperm donor without any additional involvement in the life of the child.
 
The_Ogre said:
@Ecstatic Universe the best way to prevent this from happening is to make sure she's on the pill/injection and then go get the snip. When you have sex, always use a condom and only do anal.

There was a certain forum member on here born despite his father taking these precautions. :thumbsdown:
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There is a forum member that was born after his parents had anal sex....?

Jirre....burn.
 
John Tempus said:
Do you mind reading what I am stating. My brother went through this process so I am well aware of the legalities.

Lmao, the rights of the child does not exist until legal age. I can see you have never gone through the process that sperm donors go through. If the mother feels like telling the kid then its up to her but until the kid reach legal age they have no say in the matter but I guess you somehow decided that they do.

Everyone commenting on this have no idea what they are talking about, you can become a legal sperm donor in person via regular way of insemination ie. SEX and still not form part of the family once the child is born.

Why the hell everyone is arguing against this is so retarded, this is a legal process that is done every day worldwide.

As I stated from the start if both parties agree to the terms of the conception and birth then the process is legally binding. The issue can and does sometimes come in even in the case of sperm donors when one of the "parents" , usually the mother, goes back on their word post birth and then it becomes complicated.

So if you are lucky enough and the mother can agree on mutual terms and stick to it, then you should be able to take the route as just a sperm donor without any additional involvement in the life of the child.
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But the mother never took your brother to court for maintenance right? That's the key point.

It is only if she took him to court for maintenance that we'd know the truth.

Given that multiple courts have sided with the mother, I'm inclined to be wary.
 
John Tempus said:
Do you mind reading what I am stating. My brother went through this process so I am well aware of the legalities.

Lmao, the rights of the child does not exist until legal age. I can see you have never gone through the process that sperm donors go through. If the mother feels like telling the kid then its up to her but until the kid reach legal age they have no say in the matter but I guess you somehow decided that they do.

Everyone commenting on this have no idea what they are talking about, you can become a legal sperm donor in person via regular way of insemination ie. SEX and still not form part of the family once the child is born.

Why the hell everyone is arguing against this is so retarded, this is a legal process that is done every day worldwide.

As I stated from the start if both parties agree to the terms of the conception and birth then the process is legally binding. The issue can and does sometimes come in even in the case of sperm donors when one of the "parents" , usually the mother, goes back on their word post birth and then it becomes complicated.

So if you are lucky enough and the mother can agree on mutual terms and stick to it, then you should be able to take the route as just a sperm donor without any additional involvement in the life of the child.
Click to expand...

The child’s rights are enforced by the maintenance act which covers a child’s right for support. Perhaps you should become familiar with it. No civil agreement can override law. So if everyone is happy with whatever arrangement that’s fine, but if one party chooses to exercise the child’s rights in terms of maintenance good luck with your private contract. Furthermore the child act does only infer lack of parental status to gamete donors via artificial means. There is no mention of exclusion based on intercourse.
 
quovadis said:
The child’s rights are enforced by the maintenance act which covers a child’s right for support. Perhaps you should become familiar with it. No civil agreement can override law.
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It's almost like you're saying the agreement might as well not exist in the first place. :unsure: You make sense and I can't argue with what you've said.

@John Tempus, your brother is carrying a cheque he can't cash. People involved are just being civil and agreeable, but if the woman wanted to, she definitely could get child support including back-pay.

Well it seems the price of sex is freedom gentleman. Consider that the next time you dip your wick.
 
r4nd0m said:
It's almost like you're saying the agreement might as well not exist in the first place. :unsure: You make sense and I can't argue with what you've said.
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I don’t believe there is any case law established in ZA that has even recognized a Sperm Donor Agreement as yet as binding. There’s also a distinction between parental rights and maintenance - they are separate in terms of the law. Our laws are very specific in terms of a definition of a parent and only recognize specific instances especially in respect of artificial insemination.
 
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