ICASA hearings MP3

rwenzori said:
Well I'm at 151 minutes and going to have a break! Certain observations:

1. It is very apparent, and very sad, that joe consumer CANNOT take things to the CCC on his/her ownsome. You HAVE to let a lawyer argue your case - you are dogmeat if you don't. It is sad, in view of things like work disciplinary hearings, and the small claims court, where the lawyers have to stay away. This simply means that unless good people like alacos are with you, you are going to have to pay much $$$, and consequently complaints are just not going to be brought as they should be.

2. Thankfully tommygun articulated his complaint in a strange way, so I figure there is still opportunity to attack Telkom's interpretation of 3.4 on other grounds.

3. Much about the hearing seems procedurally bizarre. The CCC did NOT do a prior investigation as required by the Act. The CCC sought advice from the Telkom lawyer about how the process should take place. The CCC, presumably figuring tommygun to be legally a bit clueless, let the defence happen before any complaint was read. It seemed to be your typical, 'Oh well, let's just rock up and wing it' type process by the CCC members. The Act specifies the CCC has to be just about all legal types, and this is a huge problem, as they are probably just not going to comprehend the technical things, therefore leading to bad decisions. And, oh!, don't they just revel in all the petty legal crap!

4. Telkom hire good lawyers. That chap should have been employed to extract information out of suspected terrorists - after a few hours you just say "OK OK OK ENOUGH! HAVE IT YOUR WAY!". Sheesh! He goes on and on and on and on and on.......

5. The CCC lot should have applied their minds to the whole process long ago, so that there is no need for haggling for an hour whether enough notice was given, and in the right manner. OK they are new to it, but hell, get your act together boys. Set out the whole procedure - NOT hard to do!
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100% on your interpretations.

Did they rule on the matter? ( Or must I keep listening?? )
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They have not yet ruled.
 
rwenzori said:
Thanks Debbie2. I'm not holding my breath.

And thanks Tommygun for putting the MP3 up - fascinating, in spite of all the lawyers!
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On the point of law they clearly win.

As to whether the 'hearings' were appropriate to the nature of the complaint, no. A one-day court hearing styled 'hearing' is clearly not sufficient or appropriate- it may form part of the procedure, but evidently shouldn't contitute the procedure in its entirety.
 
ic said:
@Tommygun, thanks for the recording & representing ADSL customers, I've managed to listen to the first 43 minutes so far, will listen to the rest later.

About Telkodemonopolies being notified of the public hearing date prior to its legal department contemplating whether or not to submit its formal response, other communication was entered into with Telkodemonopolies employees outside of the legal department, as would be the case for an ADSL customer - customers probably would never be afforded the opportunity to enter into communication with Telkodemonopolies' legal department in reference to !CASA's ADSL Regs.

!CASA's CCC did afford|allow Telkodemonopolies reasonable time to respond and did in fact receive responses - albeit not from Telkodemonopolies' legal department, the fact that Telkodemonopolies' employees did not forward !CASA's CCC queries to the legal department and decided to respond of their own accord, is Telkodemonopolies' problem and not anyone else's problem.
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Lawyers long windedness about nothing seems to be infectios.
:D
 
I skipped some large parts earlier on, but I've finished now.. it gets bad here. :eek:

"Well, Mr. Cleghorn, everything you have just said is heresay/defamatory/without factual base" etc. So nothing that is truth about Telkom counts. Oh well, like Debbie and the rest have said you can only use this to fight Telkom later. The setting will probably have to be different and the exact issues that you are taking up with Telkom must be clear unless you want to waste a lot of time with Mr. Maritz.

Too bad the recorder dies, I'd like to hear how this ends. (And the part with "this" is in the recording. :))
 
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It's a pity the MP3 cuts out.

I have to say it sounded very depressing towards the end. The chairman just let the Telkom lawyer ride roughshod over Tommygun's claims. Instead of ensuring that the statements went via the chair, the chairman just let the miserable lawyer loose to overwhelm Tommygun with a stream of utter irrelevant lies and bull, saying his comments were "vexatious" and "defamatory" ( 352 ) - conveniently leaving out "truthful".
 
Oh my, thanks for listening and sorry for the curtailing of the recording, I overlooked it in all the 'excitement'. I will hold comment untill the ruling is out. Incidently, according to Telkoms graphs I have moved 0 bytes this month...
 
Tommygun said:
Oh my, thanks for listening and sorry for the curtailing of the recording, I overlooked it in all the 'excitement'. I will hold comment untill the ruling is out. Incidently, according to Telkoms graphs I have moved 0 bytes this month...
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Well I think it was bloody brave of you to do all that - well done! And thanks for sharing the recording.
 
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