ID and driver's license scan at security

Tom427

Tom427

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Good morning!

Seems this is the only section where I can post as a newbie. I did a quick search for the title and nothing came up.

It is bcoming more and more frequent that the security at private property access roads scans your ID and your driver's license. I found an article which explains that this is not legal. In fact, it is the first milestone to identity theft:

http://blog.jp-sa.org/post/do-you-have-to-present-your-driving-licence-to-a-security-guard

How can I, in simple words, explain to the relevant security that I am not willing to present my driver's license, nor allowing them to scan my license disk?

And if they refuse me to enter, how can I meet my business partner who called me for a meeting if there is no parking outside?
 
Tom427 said:
Good morning!

Seems this is the only section where I can post as a newbie. I did a quick search for the title and nothing came up.

It is bcoming more and more frequent that the security at private property access roads scans your ID and your driver's license. I found an article which explains that this is not legal. In fact, it is the first milestone to identity theft:

http://blog.jp-sa.org/post/do-you-have-to-present-your-driving-licence-to-a-security-guard

How can I, in simple words, explain to the relevant security that I am not willing to present my driver's license, nor allowing them to scan my license disk?

And if they refuse me to enter, how can I meet my business partner who called me for a meeting if there is no parking outside?
Click to expand...

Um it's not illegal, ANY private entity has the right to verify Identity, refusal to present identification, right of access can be denied.
Your drivers license bar code doesn't contain any other information other then what is already on the card.

Barcode of the car license disk maybe that I may have an issue with, unless it's a high security area like airport, or any other high risk area, which I can understand. Private residence no, I will rather leave the vehicle outside.

So no it's NOT illegal when it's specifically used as means to verify identity, in fact I have a right as a private citizen to ask for means of identification to ANY one who enters my property and can refuse access.
 
Thanks for your feedback. I refused the check at Takea**, MacSt*** and two wine farms in the WP. Well, didn't refuse. I showed them my foreign ID (this time) - after they scanned my license disk. I see the trend of more and more venues going that route. Leaving the vehicle outside is not always an option, as you can imagine.

My mate still fights with the traffic department over the expired license for a car he never owned.. (but that may or may not be related to my topic)
 
wizardofid said:
Um it's not illegal, ANY private entity has the right to verify Identity, refusal to present identification, right of access can be denied.
Your drivers license bar code doesn't contain any other information other then what is already on the card.

Barcode of the car license disk maybe that I may have an issue with, unless it's a high security area like airport, or any other high risk area, which I can understand. Private residence no, I will rather leave the vehicle outside.

So no it's NOT illegal when it's specifically used as means to verify identity, in fact I have a right as a private citizen to ask for means of identification to ANY one who enters my property and can refuse access.
Click to expand...
Wrong it is illegal.

It does not comply with the popi act and those devices can/have been stolen and then read elsewhere.

Different story if you sign a book name and surname and the gaurd asks to view positive ID that the name and face match.

But essentially these estates are keeping logs of this in an unsecure manner placing everyone at risk.
 
You could ask for a video conference, for deliveries just use a courier to that company.
I wonder if the security guards would sign an indemnity for you, for both the company and the security company the argument being since hey authorised to collect this information they should know the consequences if it is leaked and therefor authorised to guarantee and indemnify against leakages.
 
What many of these places do allow:
You are going to visit Suzy at number Y, on X street inside the estate.
Suzy prerequests entry and exit codes.
I simply state that I do not carry proof of ID around and they cannot block entry as there is a code which means a resident is expecting you and has granted you access.
 
I try to not go to places that requests this. Makes me uncomfortable as well.
 
Ianf1 said:
You could ask for a video conference, for deliveries just use a courier to that company.
I wonder if the security guards would sign an indemnity for you, for both the company and the security company the argument being since hey authorised to collect this information they should know the consequences if it is leaked and therefor authorised to guarantee and indemnify against leakages.
Click to expand...
It is very well known that it is not a secured system and for that it is cominng "under fire"...
 
Tom427 said:
How can I, in simple words, explain to the relevant security that I am not willing to present my driver's license, nor allowing them to scan my license disk?
Click to expand...
You can't. The security at the gate isn't capable of discussing the legality of his work and even if he is, he doesn't have a mandate to change their security procedures.

You would need to talk to the management of the place or not visit any place were you disagree with some of the practices they have.

I'm noticing more estates do it. I don't care I'll let them scan my drivers or car licence.
 
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Somes estates are private property and they can refuse you entry.
But those estates which are built on public roads cannot refuse you entry.
 
Venomous said:
Wrong it is illegal.

It does not comply with the popi act and those devices can/have been stolen and then read elsewhere.

Different story if you sign a book name and surname and the gaurd asks to view positive ID that the name and face match.

But essentially these estates are keeping logs of this in an unsecure manner placing everyone at risk.
Click to expand...

Kindly point out where it's illegal ;) exactly in the act
 
I figured that I can't explain it to security:-) I like the request for indemnity to verify my data is secure.. But you can imagine where this is going in the long run. No more visiting wine farms, unless I have the courir bringing me the tasting to the boom? ;-)
 
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In simple terms, the purpose of the PoPI Act is to ensure that all South African institutions conduct themselves in a responsible manner when collecting, processing, storing and sharing another entity's personal information by holding them accountable should they abuse or compromise your personal information in any way
 
Venomous said:
In simple terms, the purpose of the PoPI Act is to ensure that all South African institutions conduct themselves in a responsible manner when collecting, processing, storing and sharing another entity's personal information by holding them accountable should they abuse or compromise your personal information in any way
Click to expand...
This is quoted, not my words.
 
dont think these things actually help in securing a property/complex, also guards that get you to fill in those books,

even those push buttons that you have to push to enter, I fail to see the point of them, honestly Ive never understood the whole point.

I just think they are all measures to give people jobs, as it gives those guards a job, and makes them do something other than sleep in the guardhouse.
and I suppose its more of a placebo effect, I really do wonder sometimes if ANY of those measures produce results and the criminals gone elsewhere due to these measures.

just like car guards, who told you they not smart criminals jamming you themselves? and posing as guards to get tips? (personally seen it happen)
same with these complex security, perfect cover for them to see who comes and goes, at what time,who rich and who not, deliveries and moving vans.

I mean if they park outside your home, you'd naturally get suspicious, but if its the complex security themselves? nobody would suspect they the real criminals,
either themselves, or telling their friends who is open to a robbery/home invasion/hijacking ect...
 
The info they collect is never checked anyway... its all just collecting of people's info for some purpose.
I don't think there is a law explicitly governing when you may and may not do this.
 
I am complacent myself about the "honor book" (my real name is Donald Duck), but the possibility of idendity theft from the data sets aquired through both scans is real, or is it not?
 
Tom427 said:
Good morning!

Seems this is the only section where I can post as a newbie. I did a quick search for the title and nothing came up.

It is bcoming more and more frequent that the security at private property access roads scans your ID and your driver's license. I found an article which explains that this is not legal. In fact, it is the first milestone to identity theft:

http://blog.jp-sa.org/post/do-you-have-to-present-your-driving-licence-to-a-security-guard

How can I, in simple words, explain to the relevant security that I am not willing to present my driver's license, nor allowing them to scan my license disk?

And if they refuse me to enter, how can I meet my business partner who called me for a meeting if there is no parking outside?
Click to expand...

You are entering a private premises, with it's own rules and all. Scanning of your license is a simplified way compared to you having to write your details in a dirty old book.

Video conference?
 
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