Idiotic Free Bandwidth Campaign a SCAM!

[Prometheus]

w1z4rd, here's an article that explains why this is a virus, in particular a social virus:

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?id=17780

Excerpt:

I don't care about YOUR excepts and definitions, there is no official definition for what you refer to as virus. On the other hand the definition for virus does not fit with your use of it so you are spreading false information and could be liable. Patricia was right, bloggers, or at least the idiots like this should be regulated.

It's pretty apparent that this is a virus in disguise. Once again, please explain to me how you see it doing any good or forcing Telkom to make bandwidth available for free?

You don't need 'IT knowledge' to see that this is a totally numbskulled idea.

Explain to me why skype is not a virus using your rhetoric. Telkom is using the excuse that their network will be crippled if they obey the law. We know that is not true but if we can prove it then it's even better. Hell, I'm tempted to do it myself on Vodacom but don't know what impact that will have on Telkom.

 

[fbc]

freeek, do you have any information about the pipes between Uninet (or whatever it is called now) and Telkom's ESR? If it is fixed price that it is probably a leased line. I'm just guessing. Does anyone have documented information?

I'm really warming up towards going P2P between ADSL users. There is already some opensource P2P clients out there. The only problem with that is that a port would have to be open on the PCs ... that could be a security issue. Using a well define port like 25 (SMTP) or 110 (POP) is really the way to go. Using well define ports would be able to give some stats about how the shaping rules is working ...

 

[henkk78]

I wish people would do their research before making these claims:

1. First of all it is NOT a virus which has a clear definition which you can not change for your benefit. If it is a virus then so is skype plain and simple.

A virus is a program that deliberately causes harm. Most viruses spreads automatically, this one spreads socially. Skype's purpose is VoIP. This program is made to 'attack'. It's a virus.

2. Secondly look at when they are going to do this. It's at the end of the month when you either use your bandwidth or lose it. So unless you're on prepaid you don't pay anything extra and if Telkom is your isp they don't get anything extra. And it's not the whole world that will install the program.

You're still only looking at it from one side here. My problem is not that it would chow my bandwidth when I download the program (which would be my choice), my problem is that people HOSTING in South Africa are paying for it. Telkom does not suffer...

3. Don't talk about the logic of using more bandwidth to lower the price of bandwidth when you don't understand the logic behind it and if you don't want your site to be one of those chosen you can just say so.

Prometheus, LOGIC just is. It's not esoteric. There's no "logic behind" the logic that you need to "understand". A -> B is either true or false. In the case where A = FBC and B = FreeBandwidth, I guarantee you this is false.

4. Anyone can look over the source to see what it does and compare it to the program that is released.

I don't see the source, but once again, even if I could, it makes no difference to points 1, 2 and 3 above.

At least somebody is doing something to bring down cost instead of just talking about it so the least people could do is think before opening their mouths or typing etc.

Well, they're doing "something", but they're definitely not doing "something to bring down the cost". They, whoever the heck "they" are, are SAYING they're bringing down the cost of bandwidth.

And who are "they" anyways? If "they" are doing something noble, why be anonymous?

 

[henkk78]

henkk78,

I had a look at your blog and I really appreciate the time you have taken to think about the FBC.

I won't be able to answer everything statement you made (sorry) and a lot of it are already answered on the FBC web site. I just too busy with a real paying job. And this is just a labour of love for me.

Let me just assure you that FBC has been in the works for 2 months with the involvement of a highly respected IT lawyer who has had great success in cases against Telkom as well as a good PR person. I'm not good writer, legal person or programmer. I'm seeding the campaign and using my contacts and coordinating the effort. You probably know good legal advice cost lots of money ... and I would expect that Telkom will put its 60 or so lawyers that are on its payroll to do try and stop the campaign.

The campaign is a grass roots style effort. That is: we are target the main stream media and the moms and pops out there. Not necessary the tech savvy people that frequents MyADSL. In fact the press release was deliberately not sent to tech media companies. I’m not sure were MyADSL picked up the press release. I've been approached by a few main stream newspapers already and I would expect that you will see coverage about the campaign soon in the papers.

The goal of the FBC is simple. We want the regulation 3.4 that governs free local ADLS bandwidth to be implemented. We want to highlight that Telkom is technical possible to do so and that by you and I having to pay for local bandwidth Telkom is acting illegally. All we want is our lawful right.

We don’t want to harm Telkom and we don’t aim to be disruptive to anyone. Telkom has never made public detail information about its network capacity. We want to show it is capable of providing free local ADSL bandwidth. By highlighting this, we want the public to force Telkom to make local bandwidth free.

We don’t want care if Telkom makes more money. Telkom is a publicly trading company. Its aim is to make money for its shareholders. FBC is not a shareholder and so has no vested interest.

The test is limited to 5 minutes and will only download a small and limited maximum amount of traffic (bandwidth).

After November 2005 when local ADSL bandwidth were “hard” capped by Telkom new wholesale’s billing system, many South African ISPs have moved their web and mail servers overseas where bandwidth is up to 20 times cheaper than here. Basically disinvesting in South Africa. By having free local ADSL bandwidth we will encourage ISP to host web and mail server locally and invest into South Africa.

It's great that you don't care that Telkom makes more money, but people who host websites in South Africa do mind, seeing as they're the ones paying for this.

Why don't you rather just set up your own servers and have everyone downloading from there?

I don't have a problem with WHAT you are trying to achieve FBC, it's HOW you are trying to achieve it. It won't work and it will further damage South African businesses who are trying to promote an internet economy.

I only pray that your programmer's code is as bad as your prose.
Then people hosting in South Africa will be safe!

/me eats, shoots and leaves

 

[Ekhaatvensters]

You know I read that whole post and hardly noticed some of those mistakes, yet they're so obvious.

Sounds like his first language isn't English, give him a break. Who cares how good his writing is, he has a very good point about bringing back hosting to SA with cheaper local bandwidth. Maybe his methods weren't the best initially, but looking at a P2P setup is a good idea.

 

[Prometheus]

A virus is a program that deliberately causes harm. Most viruses spreads automatically, this one spreads socially. Skype's purpose is VoIP. This program is made to 'attack'. It's a virus.

A virus is a program that infects and spreads without the consent or knowledge of the user, it doesn't even have to be harmful. That's the definition of a virus plain and simple and there's no sailing around it to prove an agenda. The best thing to do is to just admit the information is inaccurate before you are held liable for it. It was not designed to 'attack' anything as you imply.

You're still only looking at it from one side here. My problem is not that it would chow my bandwidth when I download the program (which would be my choice), my problem is that people HOSTING in South Africa are paying for it. Telkom does not suffer...

There's two sides here but YOU are only seeing the one. We don't even know which sites will be chosen and on which criteria. If you don't want yours involved then just say so and if it is used nontheless then just disable it between 11:55 and 12:10 on that day.

Prometheus, LOGIC just is. It's not esoteric. There's no "logic behind" the logic that you need to "understand". A -> B is either true or false. In the case where A = FBC and B = FreeBandwidth, I guarantee you this is false.

That is exactly my point and making false claims which are exactly that until we know more means you don't understand the logic behind the idea. If Telkom's network can't handle it they must upgrade using those fat profits and if it can they must provide the free local bandwidth. Either way it WILL benefit YOU in the end which is better than sitting back and simply criticising ideas.

I don't see the source, but once again, even if I could, it makes no difference to points 1, 2 and 3 above.

There is no source yet but once it's released we can all check it and prove you wrong on your point of a virus.

Well, they're doing "something", but they're definitely not doing "something to bring down the cost". They, whoever the heck "they" are, are SAYING they're bringing down the cost of bandwidth.

That shows me you can only think in the short term.

 

[fbc]

henkk78,

I will pay you or anyone else that has a SA hosted web site and object to the campaign about additional hosting fees: I will pay 10c per MB that testing program downloads from your web site on 30 June from 12h00 to 12h05.

I think the goal is much bigger than a few cents or Rands. I'll will get the web site developer to create a page on FBC web site where you will be able to claim your additional hosting cost.

If that it is cost to get your buy in, I'll be happy to pay. I would love to get your buy in to the campaign. If I can "convert" someone to the campaign, I think we are on the right track.

I believe when more ISPs host local again, the price for local hosting will drop to more to what it is internationally. The MyADSL web site is hosted locally and used 234GB in January 2007. MBs for a short test is a drop in the ocean then.

 

[Prometheus]

If that it is cost to get your buy in, I'll be happy to pay. I would love to get your buy in to the campaign. If I can "convert" someone to the campaign, I think we are on the right track.

Before I go any further, is that an official statement for everybody that I can publish?

 

[fbc]

Before I go any further, is that an official statement for everybody that I can publish?

Sure. I think it would be far less than hosting the www.myadsl.co.za web site for a month. MyADSL is a very good cause and I think this is too. And I truely believe in this campaign so I'll put my personal money behind it. As I said above, I'll even put an article and a form on the FBC web site – just give it a few days.

As a side note: I must say that I'm really loving the P2P thing. There is the firewall, privacy and security issue with doing it P2P, but I see that as a challenge and not an obstacle.

 

[Razer0]

henkk78, its not like what youre doing now is going to stop the compaign.

Ok so, either go with the flow or jump ship please. Whatever youre doing is not working. Take fbc's proposal. I think its an awesome one

 

[fbc]

Is there anyway to get the 2 threads about this merged?

 

[feo]

Sure. I think it would be far less than hosting the www.myadsl.co.za web site for a month. MyADSL is a very good cause and I think this is too. And I truely believe in this campaign so I'll put my personal money behind it. As I said above, I'll even put an article and a form on the FBC web site – just give it a few days.

As a side note: I must say that I'm really loving the P2P thing. There is the firewall, privacy and security issue with doing it P2P, but I see that as a challenge and not an obstacle.

Just by the way, I think what you're doing is great. All we needed was someone to kickstart a process like this, no doubt you'll get the support you want.

But we have to really spread the word through mainstream media like you say and really push for free local, I mean it's LAW to have free local bandwidth!

Again, great work.

 

[fbc]

I have a one page description that paints the broad strokes of what the testing program should do. Is there anyone willing to do a flowchart or a spec for the program? Maybe using UML. I have no knowledge about it.

EDIT: You will get credit in the source and the executable.

 

[AntiThesis]

Henkk, don't you realise that what you're saying is silly? You're gnawing on the same old bone although I'm sure you must recognize the losing battle.

fbc is doing something here that could actually make a difference. What are you doing?

 

[Prometheus]

Sure. I think it would be far less than hosting the www.myadsl.co.za web site for a month. MyADSL is a very good cause and I think this is too. And I truely believe in this campaign so I'll put my personal money behind it. As I said above, I'll even put an article and a form on the FBC web site – just give it a few days.

Thanks and don't take what Henk says too seriously. Most people here can criticise but are not prepared to do anything themselves and besides you have the support of most people here and a lot of people will pay for this themselves.

 

[AntiThesis]

Thanks and don't take what Henk says too seriously. Most people here can criticise but are not prepared to do anything themselves and besides you have the support of most people here and a lot of people will pay for this themselves.

Damned skippy.

 

[henkk78]

But we have to really spread the word through mainstream media like you say and really push for free local, I mean it's LAW to have free local bandwidth!

Can someone please clarify where the law says it must be free?

As far as I understood it the new law says it must be 'uncapped'. Uncapped does not automatically mean 'free'. It just means your service won't be stopped dead all of a sudden, which has been causing major headaches for many small businesses.

 

[henkk78]

Henkk, don't you realise that what you're saying is silly? You're gnawing on the same old bone although I'm sure you must recognize the losing battle.

fbc is doing something here that could actually make a difference. What are you doing?

AntiThesis, I am trying to save lots of small businesses from being further ripped off by Telkom's exorbitant prices.

 

[henkk78]

Thanks and don't take what Henk says too seriously. Most people here can criticise but are not prepared to do anything themselves and besides you have the support of most people here and a lot of people will pay for this themselves.

Prometheus, 3 things:

1. I donated R200 to the TAG campaign. I do care.

2. Because I personally couldn't afford ADSL as a student, I came up with a prepaid, per megabyte method to share bandwidth with my digsmates & neighbours and extended this so that anyone could do the same by setting up their own Wi-Fi hotspots. The effect being that more than 3500 users now have broadband without needing to get Telkom line rentals.

3. I lodged an official complaint with the ISPA regarding iBurst's spread of misinformation around Aerosat. I am involved.

To fbc, thank you for joining the debate and for offering to pay my bandwidth costs during that time period. I am gladdened by the fact that you see how this could damage South African small businesses.

I am, however, concerned with the fact that you remain anonymous, and therefore it's unlikely that I'll be able to claim damages from you when this happens. I am also concerned that most South African businesses won't know what hit them or how to approach you to ask for funds back.

I'm glad to hear that you are thinking of doing this using P2P instead of downloading from .co.za websites, and strongly encourage you to go that route IF you have to continue.

Nonetheless, I just don't see how using loads more bandwidth is going to put any pressure on Telkom to make bandwidth available for free.

IF enough people do this, it's more likely that Telkom will simply start charging the ISPs for "over the cap" bandwidth, and it will be left to ISPs to figure out how to bill users for this.

 

[henkk78]

henkk78, its not like what youre doing now is going to stop the compaign.

Ok so, either go with the flow or jump ship please. Whatever youre doing is not working. Take fbc's proposal. I think its an awesome one

Razer0, considering that fbc has responded to my objections by offering to pay anyone hosting a website in South Africa for any damages, I would think that 'whatever I'm doing" is having a fairly positive effect.

Don't you?