Idiotic Free Bandwidth Campaign a SCAM!

[Prometheus]

Can someone please clarify where the law says it must be free?

As far as I understood it the new law says it must be 'uncapped'. Uncapped does not automatically mean 'free'. It just means your service won't be stopped dead all of a sudden, which has been causing major headaches for many small businesses.

The law isn't new and it says all adsl users must receive uncapped local access. Meaning if you pay for adsl you get as much local as you want, that is free in a lot of people's books. You pay for the access only and not the usage.

Prometheus, 3 things:

1. I donated R200 to the TAG campaign. I do care.

2. Because I personally couldn't afford ADSL as a student, I came up with a prepaid, per megabyte method to share bandwidth with my digsmates & neighbours and extended this so that anyone could do the same by setting up their own Wi-Fi hotspots. The effect being that more than 3500 users now have broadband without needing to get Telkom line rentals.

3. I lodged an official complaint with the ISPA regarding iBurst's spread of misinformation around Aerosat. I am involved.

I don't see the reason why you have to complain about this and call people idiots of the week when it is clear you didn't do your research first and spread false information about virusses etc. This and the fact that you don't even know yet how the websites will be selected and can only make assumptions at this stage.

IF enough people do this, it's more likely that Telkom will simply start charging the ISPs for "over the cap" bandwidth, and it will be left to ISPs to figure out how to bill users for this.

This is simply just nonsense. Most users don't use their full cap and when you reach your limit you get capped. Their is not enough data downloaded anyway to go far over the cap isps in general will still get money from people who pay for what they don't use. If they make a little less profit then so be it, the users using Telkom ISP will make sure that Telkom also has to foot the bill for some bandwidth and I think we should stress test using even more bandwidth for say like the whole day between those users.

 

[jetpacman]

Hmmm interesting thread. Henk I must say it feels like you are pushing a partyline here. Almost like because you say fbc is rubbish, then it must be rubbish...

It seems like you are subtly trying to protect your own personal business interests using this forum.

How would you like it if I said Skyrove was rubbish.
I am not a rich guy but I share my bandwidth ( I got too much for me to use) to whoever wants it in my neighbourhood for free! But thats just me. There are however ways and as well as hacks to setup your own hotspots. I could argue that if uncapped ADSL became reality then why wouldnt some people share everything they had for free. Slowly but surely I could study your business model and find many ways to poke holes in it. What I am saying here is however at face value as I am ignorant the modus operandi of Skyrove. However it also seems like a logical progression that free bandwidth is not in the best interest of those who are trying to sell it.

Fbc seems to me like a shakeup and something that will be an interesting experiment.

Fbc like asking everbody in China to jump at the same time, lets hope it throws Telkom out of orbit.

 

[Abe]

If this test crashes any part of the network it then validates Telkom's claim that capping must be in place to prevent abuse.

That is the very real danger.

 

[Roman4604]

That is the very real danger.

Little chance. I cant see this campaign getting the support of 0.5% of the ADSL subscriber base ... and thats being kind as it accounts for over 1000 ppl.

 

[Abe]

Little chance. I cant see this campaign getting the support of 0.5% of the ADSL subscriber base ... and thats being kind as it accounts for over 1000 ppl.

But depending on the number of sites targeted, you could create problems at a few sites and then give Telkom ammunition.

 

[henkk78]

Hmmm interesting thread. Henk I must say it feels like you are pushing a partyline here. Almost like because you say fbc is rubbish, then it must be rubbish...

It seems like you are subtly trying to protect your own personal business interests using this forum.

Actually, free local bandwidth will be a major boon to the philosophy I'm trying to push (sharing bandwidth using Wi-Fi). (If you wish we can discuss that separately).

But once again, this has nothing to do with the topic of FBC.

My problem is simply with the fact that FBC wants to initiate an attack (whether you call it that or not) that will have NO effect on how Telkom does business but that WILL harm businesses hosting in South Africa.

That's my only argument. It has absolutely nothing to do with "partylines" and I think that's really a looooooooong stretch to try and discredit my arguments.

Once again, if you CAN argue that what the FBC is doing will have any effect on Telkom's pricing of local bandwidth, then please do so. But please don't take shots at my other efforts to bring broadband costs down.

That's just cheap.

 

[Mike_De_Lange]

henkk78 I think you made yourself look foolish. You have missed the entire point of there exercise.

"Telkom claims its network cannot support the traffic of all ADSL users who are entitled to free local bandwidth."

Its to prove that there network can handle it! If they dont crash and burn then you know its another 1 on there long list of bullsh1t lies!

And do you even know wot a virus is???? A virus is NOT something you have full control over, something that does NO damage and its CERTAINLY NOT A PROGRAM you can remove at any time....

My guess is you work for Telkom or are affliated with them in some way and you just dont want this brillant idea to go through!

 

[henkk78]

henkk78 I think you made yourself look foolish. You have missed the entire point of there exercise.

"Telkom claims its network cannot support the traffic of all ADSL users who are entitled to free local bandwidth."

Its to prove that there network can handle it! If they dont crash and burn then you know its another 1 on there long list of bullsh1t lies!

No Mike, I didn't miss the point. I understand it quite clearly. I just don't see how it will prove anything we don't know already or do anything to actually give us free bandwidth.

So what if they "prove" that Telkom are liars? Don't you already know that?

 

[Mike_De_Lange]

Yes we do. Your logic does not make sense. Its like saying "Why stop murderers if we know they murderers?"

 

[bwana]

No Mike, I didn't miss the point. I understand it quite clearly. I just don't see how it will prove anything we don't know already or do anything to actually give us free bandwidth.

So what if they "prove" that Telkom are liars? Don't you already know that?

"We" know a whole lot more than the average adsl user - most of them havent even heard of the ADSL regulations.

 

[Prometheus]

henkk78 I think you made yourself look foolish. You have missed the entire point of there exercise.

"Telkom claims its network cannot support the traffic of all ADSL users who are entitled to free local bandwidth."

Its to prove that there network can handle it! If they dont crash and burn then you know its another 1 on there long list of bullsh1t lies!

And do you even know wot a virus is???? A virus is NOT something you have full control over, something that does NO damage and its CERTAINLY NOT A PROGRAM you can remove at any time....

My guess is you work for Telkom or are affliated with them in some way and you just dont want this brillant idea to go through!

He does get $65 for every referral for international hosting so he certainly has a vested interest in keeping cost of local bandwidth high whether or not he's actually doing so. Btw that site does not give a price and when you click on "sign up" it just throws you back to the main page. If I really wanted to sign up I would have just forget about the trouble and go with hostgator instead.

 

[henkk78]

Yes we do. Your logic does not make sense. Its like saying "Why stop murderers if we know they murderers?"

Err, no, it's got nothing to do with the 'why', it's got to do with the 'how'. 'How' FBC is 'stopping the murderers' is not going to work.

Mike, the issue is not 'stopping the murderers', it's that the FBC aims to stop the murderers by murdering everyone who hosts in South Africa.

 

[henkk78]

He does get $65 for every referral for international hosting so he certainly has a vested interest in keeping cost of local bandwidth high whether or not he's actually doing so. Btw that site does not give a price and when you click on "sign up" it just throws you back to the main page. If I really wanted to sign up I would have just forget about the trouble and go with hostgator instead.

I haven't actually had any referrals, so I'll take it off.

The reason I put it there was so that people won't have to pay the exorbitant rates they pay locally. Not in order to 'prey' off them.

Sheesh...

Perhaps YOU have a compelling argument for why the FBC strategy is going to work to give us free bandwidth?

Come on Prometheus, how many more cheap shots and giant leaps of logic do I have to put up with here?

 

[henkk78]

"We" know a whole lot more than the average adsl user - most of them havent even heard of the ADSL regulations.

The ADSL regulations say the bandwidth should be 'uncapped', not 'free'.

I do realise that this could be interpreted differently by people and that probably leads to the confusion.

But once again, that is an entirely different debate.

The issue is at stake is a bunch of anonymous guys wanting to 'free' bandwidth by using lots of it on a certain day, and by having people voluntarily installing an illegal program. (whether you call it a virus or not, it will be against your ISP's AUP)

It's not gonna work in any case.

 

[Mike_De_Lange]

Well if it requires that we suffer as a country for a few months to solve these outrageous and totally unacceptable acts by Telkom then I think its well worth it! We have waited this long for something to be done about Telkom and if it takes something this bold faced to do it then I think its worth a try! Websites like http://hellcom.co.za/ about Telskum didn't just appear. This **** has been boiling for years and now its exploding into public light! Just because you sitting pretty henkk78 and are reaping the rewards from there monopoly doesn't mean the rest of the country is!!!!

 

[Prometheus]

I haven't actually had any referrals, so I'll take it off.

The reason I put it there was so that people won't have to pay the exorbitant rates they pay locally. Not in order to 'prey' off them.

Sheesh...

Perhaps YOU have a compelling argument for why the FBC strategy is going to work to give us free bandwidth?

Come on Prometheus, how many more cheap shots and giant leaps of logic do I have to put up with here?

The bad links might explain why, I suspect everybody is signing up through support. And no I'm not accusing you of anything here, just saying that you do appear to have an interest in international bandwidth so if you can't give reasons for your remarks and instead call things virusses when they are not you will get a lot of flack. Appearance is what counts on these forums.

We have been trying to tell you why it might work. There is no going to work, nothing is guaranteed. It does not matter that everyone know Telkom is lying, we must be able to prove they are lying. We can't use their stats so if we can get our own it may just be what we need to show that they ARE lying. If that is the case there is no technical reason for them to disobey the law and we can use that. You are only thinking short term here if you are thinking at all.

 

[henkk78]

Well if it requires that we suffer as a country for a few months to solve these outrageous and totally unacceptable acts by Telkom then I think its well worth it! We have waited this long for something to be done about Telkom and if it takes something this bold faced to do it then I think its worth a try! Websites like http://hellcom.co.za/ about Telskum didn't just appear. This **** has been boiling for years and now its exploding into public light! Just because you sitting pretty henkk78 and are reaping the rewards from there monopoly doesn't mean the rest of the country is!!!!

Mike, I'm not sitting pretty, and am puzzled as to where you get that idea from.

I'm hosting in South Africa and like anyone else hosting locally, will be the one footing the bill. It will not do one bit to change Telkom's behaviour.

How about we all just agree to chew bubblegum on 30 June to protest against Telkom's high prices for local bandwidth?

It will have JUST as much effect, but at least it won't make more money for Telkom by harming people hosting locally.

 

[Prometheus]

The ADSL regulations say the bandwidth should be 'uncapped', not 'free'.

I do realise that this could be interpreted differently by people and that probably leads to the confusion.

But once again, that is an entirely different debate.

The issue is at stake is a bunch of anonymous guys wanting to 'free' bandwidth by using lots of it on a certain day, and by having people voluntarily installing an illegal program. (whether you call it a virus or not, it will be against your ISP's AUP)

It's not gonna work in any case.

See there you go again with claims you can not support. It is NOT an illegal program and it certainly is not a virus. It is not against your ISP's AUP any more than pinging is. You pay for the bandwidth so you have every RIGHT to use it.

 

[henkk78]

See there you go again with claims you can not support. It is NOT an illegal program and it certainly is not a virus. It is not against your ISP's AUP any more than pinging is. You pay for the bandwidth so you have every RIGHT to use it.

See below, I think that should be ample substantiation:

I would also seriously think of the legal consequences of doing something like this!

Refer to SAIX AUP.

http://www.saix.net/accept.html, Section 4, Paragraph 3.
"...You may not attempt to interfere with service to any user, host, or network ("denial of service attacks"). This includes, but is not limited to "flooding" of networks, deliberate attempts to overload a service, and attempts to "crash" a host..."

Now "testing" network's capacity is "flooding", and it is a deliberate attempt to do such. *If* the network cannot handle the traffic, you are in violation of SAIX AUP.

http://www.saix.net/accept.html, Section 4, Paragraph 4.
"...Users who violate systems or network security may incur criminal or civil liability..."

This "test" may not just affect DSL users, it may affect ISP's with Diginet lines aswell. Some ISP's have SLA agreements with Telkom/SAIX. If these ISP's complain about malicious activity there may be big problems for the users partaking in this "campaign".

 

[Mike_De_Lange]

Well they can't do much about it if everyone participates now can they. They will just have to accept it, face the facts and deal with it or Are they gonna take the entire adsl public to court? All the above is just your standerd BS fair-usage/usage policy.

I have gathered 30 of my friends and we have all decided to to pull more than that. We gonna go all out for the 3GB even if it means a very high once off adsl bill We've spoken to the IT guys at work and they gonna get this going on all our work PC's! We have a 2MB pipe at work at its a saterday so it should be awesom. They pay a fixed amount a month so it won't make a difference to them :mrgreen: I'm stoked for the 30th It's like a public strike/demonstration against Telkoms prices and monopoly. Instead of a street march we gonna march down their ADSL pipes