Idiotic Free Bandwidth Campaign a SCAM!

[AntiThesis]

Ok so here's the easiest solution on earth. The program only uses sites who wish to participate and those who decide the risk is too high for the gain can just decline.

But then there should be a proviso. Should this lead to free local bandwidth you cannot benefit from it. Kinda like if stem cells ever create a cure for cancer, people who moaned about them shouldn't get the cure.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ok so here's the easiest solution on earth. The program only uses sites who wish to participate and those who decide the risk is too high for the gain can just decline.

But then there should be a proviso. Should this lead to free local bandwidth you cannot benefit from it. Kinda like if stem cells ever create a cure for cancer, people who moaned about them shouldn't get the cure.

You are a great arbiter AntiThesis. Problem solved.

 

[Prometheus]

I think I've made a pretty good argument. (by saying 'using more bandwidth won't make it free')

It's further supported by the fact that you couldn't come up with a counter-argument.

It seems that accusing me of having personal business interests is the best you could come up with.

Please see my earlier idea for a program that will send MASSIVE amounts of email from 1000s of different users in order to put pressure of Telkom.

Or is that also my personal business interests now?

That is not an argument, it is just a statement. Our arguments are very clear but again you have not read them and resort to irrelevancies or falsehoods. The email has already been done and they don't make an impact any more if they ever did.

I agree that the reasons are nothing less than bull, but they are using them regardless, on top of this Telkom already claims that they do not cap local usage, which makes the stated claim of this campaign pointless, since whatever the outcome Telkoms response will either be, "see we told you" or "but we don't cap in any case so whats your point"

They are using them and nobody is doing anything about it except these people. We already know the party line Telkom doesn't cap usage it's SAIX that does it. It's not going to fly this time Telkom the company is acting illegally and capping usage no matter which division is implementing it, besides Telkom claim "they" have to cap usage so there's no question who is doing it.

 

[Prometheus]

Ok so here's the easiest solution on earth. The program only uses sites who wish to participate and those who decide the risk is too high for the gain can just decline.

But then there should be a proviso. Should this lead to free local bandwidth you cannot benefit from it. Kinda like if stem cells ever create a cure for cancer, people who moaned about them shouldn't get the cure.

I think that's a good idea, if you don't want to participate you don't reap the rewards. Unfortunately it would be impossible to implement and as usual the lackies will benefit.

 

[krycor]

Only one thing.. someone better scan the program well or get confirmation on identities. Sorry to say this but it IS the best way to get a couple k worth of peoples identities be it banking etc in one foul sweep. Lets face it, anyone can launch a website, make good statements about things to fight the cause etc and then clear a few bank accounts.

I don't store that kinda of info on pc, but you can't not tell me this is not a good way to run a key logger or a quick search and send proggy to get info etc on a grand scale. Think of the sme's out there.. how vulnerable aren't they really in SA? Just the other day we had reports in the news about how unlike anywhere else in the world SA seems unphased by e-scams etc.. due to naivety maybe? if so thats a nice wide market for havoc.(think about it, identity theft is possibly the biggest security threat, how many of those cases have not made headlines in SA already?)

Uhm i thought proper investigation went into finding out who, where etc the people are. If not, then this is a MAJOR weak spot in myadsl.

That being said hopefully as the time draws near things will be sorted, a virus comp to confirm etc

 

[henkk78]

That is not an argument, it is just a statement. Our arguments are very clear but again you have not read them and resort to irrelevancies or falsehoods. The email has already been done and they don't make an impact any more if they ever did.

Which falsehood?

And please let us know where my automatic mailer software idea has been used.

Thanks

 

[henkk78]

I think that's a good idea, if you don't want to participate you don't reap the rewards. Unfortunately it would be impossible to implement and as usual the lackies will benefit.

Okay, I'll chew Bubblegum in support.

Come on guys, seriously, use your brains. Downloading loads of data is not going to change how Telkom does business.

 

[henkk78]

Ok so here's the easiest solution on earth. The program only uses sites who wish to participate and those who decide the risk is too high for the gain can just decline.

But then there should be a proviso. Should this lead to free local bandwidth you cannot benefit from it. Kinda like if stem cells ever create a cure for cancer, people who moaned about them shouldn't get the cure.

AntiThesis, I have absolutely no problem with this.

I'll go one further: If the FBC has the desired effect, I will eat my non-existent bowler hat.

If you have a more realistic challenge, I'll even consider that. I will publicly eat my words in whichever way you see fit.

Considering that I think a snowball has a better chance in hell than succeeding, I'll put my diet where my mouth is.

This is of course on the condition that you (and Prometheus if he's brave enough) do the same if I turn out to be right.

 

[AntiThesis]

AntiThesis, I have absolutely no problem with this.

I'll go one further: If the FBC has the desired effect, I will eat my non-existent bowler hat.

If you have a more realistic challenge, I'll even consider that. I will publicly eat my words in whichever way you see fit.

Considering that I think a snowball has a better chance in hell than succeeding, I'll put my diet where my mouth is.

This is of course on the condition that you (and Prometheus if he's brave enough) do the same if I turn out to be right.

Again you're playing with straw men Henkk. Here's then what I propose to you.

Should the FBC thing turn out to be a virus (as you have asserted) and should it end up crashing the network (as you have asserted) and if it costs local hosters (such as myself) thousands of rands (as you have asserted) then I'll gladly say "Well done Henkk, you saw the truth when nobody else did."

If however none or even a part of this happens, you can eat your bowler hat, monocle or whatever antiquated clothing your heart desires.

 

[redheadfan]

USING MORE BANDWIDTH WILL NOT MAKE IT FREE!

It won't be free. You are paying for: Copper Line, ADSL Access and your ISP. Also for content where appropriate.

(And this is not even opening the can of worms about the ADSL access charge)

 

[Prometheus]

I don't store that kinda of info on pc, but you can't not tell me this is not a good way to run a key logger or a quick search and send proggy to get info etc on a grand scale. Think of the sme's out there.. how vulnerable aren't they really in SA? Just the other day we had reports in the news about how unlike anywhere else in the world SA seems unphased by e-scams etc.. due to naivety maybe? if so thats a nice wide market for havoc.(think about it, identity theft is possibly the biggest security threat, how many of those cases have not made headlines in SA already?)

The government is to blame for that as usual, awareness is not what it should be and the "unique" market with cellphones and internet means people have just enough access for it to be potentially dangerous. I think it's a bit too public to be a scam of that nature but will be sure to check it out once it's released. I don't think 26 days is enough time though if they don't even have a programmer yet. Testing should take at least a month so something like august or september would have been better.

 

[Prometheus]

Which falsehood?

And please let us know where my automatic mailer software idea has been used.

Thanks

Should I number them? Scam, virus, ddos attacks, the list could go on...

Okay, I'll chew Bubblegum in support.

Come on guys, seriously, use your brains. Downloading loads of data is not going to change how Telkom does business.

No, which is why support is needed from as many people as possible. You still don't understand the idea behind it.

Again you're playing with straw men Henkk. Here's then what I propose to you.

Should the FBC thing turn out to be a virus (as you have asserted) and should it end up crashing the network (as you have asserted) and if it costs local hosters (such as myself) thousands of rands (as you have asserted) then I'll gladly say "Well done Henkk, you saw the truth when nobody else did."

If however none or even a part of this happens, you can eat your bowler hat, monocle or whatever antiquated clothing your heart desires.

I can agree with that.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

It seems that we are seeing two different sides here and everyone is attacking the one side for no good reason.

Side 1, the average ADSL user, who is being shafted by Telkom for a few hundred rand a month, to whom this campaign seems like a good way to prove to Telskum that they should be given free and unlimited local bandwidth since the argument that the network can not handle it is bull. the fact that Telkom claims they can not differentiate local from international traffic is behind the reason for the local cap is not even being considered here.

Side 2, those of us who run small internet businesses, who are being shafted for thousands of rands every month and only see this campaign as a way of being shafted even more.

Claiming that we (Side 2) do not care, only complain, and are not interested in putting our money where our mouths are is grossly unfair especially taking into account that for most of you (Side 1) this campaign won't cost a cent. And will at worst cause you a few hours of frustration (or maybe satisfaction) if the network does go down, while for those of us earning a living from locally hosted sites stand to lose not only in increased bandwidth use, but also in lost revenue due to possible and certainly unintentional DDOS effects.

But more importantly, this campaign whether it proves Telkoms Network can or can not handle the load will change nothing. Telkom claimed in an article earlier this year (can't fins it now) that the reason that local bandwidth is included in the cap and therefore the reason that local bandwidth is capped is because their systems can not differentiate between local and international.

Its mighty funny to me that a few years ago their systems could differentiate but now they can't.

In actual fact the only logic I see behind that is Telkom went through the expense of actually combining local with international so they could benifit. I say this because I don't see how our local must travel through SAIX and be charged for. Why must it go through that point?

Even if it must they have one dam point to differentiate from because we only have one bloody cable that goes in and out of Africa. So how can you not seperate local from that???

Very strange this!?!

 

[|tera|]

I'm scratching myself, I'm in absolute pain, I said recently I don't want to have an opinion on this forum, but here goes.

I think it's a stupid idea, isn't there a way to test network load, other than downloading?

Edit: for those that want to give me a grammar lesson,

Network load
Network capacity
Network capability, other than downloading

IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THIS POST< >PLEASE IGNORE IT<>I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION<>LOL

 

[Roman4604]

Its mighty funny to me that a few years ago their systems could differentiate but now they can't.

In actual fact the only logic I see behind that is Telkom went through the expense of actually combining local with international so they could benifit. I say this because I don't see how our local must travel through SAIX and be charged for. Why must it go through that point?

Even if it must they have one dam point to differentiate from because we only have one bloody cable that goes in and out of Africa. So how can you not seperate local from that???

Very strange this!?!

Most of your questions can be answered by reading this thread ... http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=75471 , including that Telkom will be complying with the unmetered local ADSL bw regulation by Nov 2007. If this Dr. Sharon Horton of Telkom is to be believed, then there is no need from the clueless campaign or load test.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Most of your questions can be answered by reading this thread ... http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=75471 , including that Telkom will be complying with the unmetered local ADSL bw regulation by Nov 2007. If this Dr. Sharon Horton of Telkom is to be believed, then there is no need from the clueless campaign or load test.

Yep I just read all of that. In fact I posted the same question there. No-one can answer me I guess because Im right.

The simple thing is to monitor everything going in and out of SA isn't it??

Why even try to measure local if they claim they can't?? If they don't measure it they can't charge for it???

Still doesn't make sense to me

 

[Roman4604]

Still doesn't make sense to me

Practically it is much more complex to count traffic than it is to foward it. The real tricky bit is to accurately do it for each account independantly (230,000 of them atm). I'm sure most would be mightly pissed if someone else's intl. traffic was incorrectly added to their cap.

 

[henkk78]

Its mighty funny to me that a few years ago their systems could differentiate but now they can't.

In actual fact the only logic I see behind that is Telkom went through the expense of actually combining local with international so they could benifit. I say this because I don't see how our local must travel through SAIX and be charged for. Why must it go through that point?

Even if it must they have one dam point to differentiate from because we only have one bloody cable that goes in and out of Africa. So how can you not seperate local from that???

Very strange this!?!

I think in the past they didn't actually meter them separately.

If I remember correctly, local DID count towards your cap, so they didn't measure it separately.

It was only after you reached your cap, that they simply blocked international traffic.

 

[saintm]

Many emails?

Please see my earlier idea for a program that will send MASSIVE amounts of email from 1000s of different users in order to put pressure of Telkom.

Hmm, this suggestion bothers me a bit. And there are two reasons for this.

Imagine 500 or 5000 people sending an email to ICASA (for arguments sake) at once. Can you imagine the load on the outgoing email servers of ISPs and then the incoming load on ICASA's email server? This is DEFINITELY going to crash someone's server somewhere along the way. And then there are going to be some very peeved system administrators!

More interestingly, if it is virtually the same email coming in, who is actually going to read each and every one? I get the feeling that they will all be selected and binned. It will show support for the particular cause, that is true, but worse, they will probably grab their entire Inbox and bin it all, along with other people's emails not related to the major campaign.

What FBC seems to be proposing is a kind of speed test on the networks. As far as I am concerned, the network *should* be capable of handling a multitude of people effectively "browsing" websites. If everyone in my company wants to check News24 at once, that shouldn't be seen as an attack on that website - and we are talking in the region of 3000 users. Of course, I don't think our Internet pipe would cope, but that is another matter

Again, I think the FBC idea could be a very interesting development. The logistics may not be totally in place yet, but it seems intriguing.

One thing that I would really like with something like this is that the people that are running the program to register where they are running it from for a geographical view of it all. Some parts of the network are *bound* to be better than others and having a blanket statement that it can cope may not be entirely true if the Western Cape experiences a terrible speed decrease but it is negligible in Gauteng. At least, that may highlight for some what they have suspected for a while - that they may be in a "bad" spot for ADSL.

Just a few thoughts

 

[henkk78]

Hmm, this suggestion bothers me a bit. And there are two reasons for this.

Imagine 500 or 5000 people sending an email to ICASA (for arguments sake) at once. Can you imagine the load on the outgoing email servers of ISPs and then the incoming load on ICASA's email server? This is DEFINITELY going to crash someone's server somewhere along the way. And then there are going to be some very peeved system administrators!

Good point saintm. I suspect one way to do it would be by NOT having everyone send the email at once. When the user downloads the program, it would have some randomization for timing of new messages by default. The user will also be able to choose when they want their program to send messages.

Also, because each message is from an individual user, and as each user has to physically click the Send message, ICASA has to register each message for what it is: legit.

The only point of this is simply to take away the schlep of writing letters. You could argue that "if you care enough, write your own letter", but I think there are many people who care about many issues, but just don't know where to start or who simply don't have the time to do it.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts for how to get a non-spam mass email campaign off the ground.

I really do believe it will have a greater effect than a mass 'network test'.