Imagine Uncapped Feedback

Yeah - it's a damned nightmare... I'm sorry to see you go fella but I fully understand.
Remember us when things start getting back on track though. :D
 
Hmm..... hope you guys sort out something with the IS peeps..... <10KBps today again.... it's horrible.
 
Mine is hellish, really I feel like breaking things.

In correspondance with IMAGINE technical support, testing speeds throughout the day...

This is current;

IS ADSL Local Speed Test to Internet Solutions Rosebank Data Centre
Please wait testing speed now...
Start Time: 11:04:21
End time: 11:05:44
IP Address: 196.210.157.115
Download Size: 409600 bytes
Time Delta: 83.288606882095 seconds
Download Speed: 5 KBytes/s
Line Speed: 40 kbits/s

IS ADSL Local Speed Test to Internet Solutions New York Data Centre
Please wait testing speed now...
Start Time: 11:06:09
End time: 11:09:59
Download Size: 819200 bytes
Time Delta: 229.172051907 seconds
Download Speed: 3 KBytes/s
Line Speed: 24 kbits/s

AWFUL
 
My HTTP is DEFINITELY shaped, some sites don't even load.

Took 7 minutes to receive a 1mb email this morning.

Any downloads from my web browser just stall.

:(:(:(:(
 
Very similar results to me... I just gave up last night when after 23:00 I was downloading at less then 30kbps, it's just become so ridiculous I cant do anything else but laugh. This is probably the biggest waste of R500 in my life... And I've done some wasteful stuff!!

I am even reconsidering my own principles and buying a second account now already instead of waiting until month end and then cutting over to the new ISP now!
 
After this afternoon guys we should have some very realistic answers from IS.
I've been told that the guy running all of this (and in charge of it), 'Jason Dworkin' is going to be there and so I'm sure he'll be getting a good grilling from all of us.

We have a number of questions that need definite answers. The whys and history to this is not irrelevant to us and we just want clear goals and action moving forward.

Our important questions are:

- When will the service be usable as a proper 'shaped' uncapped service with reasonable line-speeds for all protocols?
- What processes & systems are being implemented to ensure you can handle the proposed telkom line upgrades? Will you be ready?
- Can you be as transparent as possible on how you manage and shape this account moving forward?
- When will IS have a 'network update' section that all resellers can use?
- When will we be able to link to these accounts through our RADIUS servers to allow us to give full stats and management?
- We generally have more experienced staff the ones we deal with at IS - can we have a senior technical contact to deal with with our requests rather than having to fight through the first & 2nd level support to solve queries above hteir heads?
- Can we offer client rebates for the first half/month of this shocking service?

We do have more questions but if you would like to add to this then post them up here now. I leave at 2pm so will keep checking back.

Again, nothing smart or sarcastic as this is about getting a decent service and moving forward from what has essentially been a disaster. I am happy to ask these questions if I feel they will help us get there quicker.

Cheerrs,

Peter
 
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I like your questions ppedrick, I really hope you will find the way to resolve this irritating issues.
 
Maybe ask if theyre going to refund the 4meg customers who have only received a 384kb service? :P

Just kidding, I rekon you pretty much hit the nail on the head Peter. Hope something good comes of it!!
 
Yeah - If I'm honest - the rebate as I see it is much more for the 4MB accounts. The 384's have been pretty slow but no where near as bad.

I tell you though (another rant :D), it's so strange for me... I'm really starting feel the need to start flying the 'customer service' flag here in SA.

Coming from the UK, where our service isn't considered the best, I can't get over how terrible companies treat their customers here.

I recently had to drive my UK-bought top-of-the-range HP laptop to a 3rd party company in Midrand, to wait in a 1 hour queue, get a ticket and be told to come back in 7-14 days to check if it's ready! I'm used to being sent the parts in the post or at least them picking it up and delivering it again in a matter of days... whatever the case, no business would expect me to take time off from work and put myself out to help fix their product.

Yet, when I tell everyone this story they just nod and say 'welcome to Africa' in an accepting tone... wtf!

Most people on this forum seem to have decent jobs and work in companies where we can make a difference. I really don't believe that we all should be bad just because everyone else is. Someone really ahs to start raising their game here.

** end rant **

I tell you, these boards are starting to turn in to my therapy sessions!
 
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Totally agree.

I have fought with 2 of my local friends about this internet issue, I have been told that I should "calm down and accept it" and "its not worth getting upset over" but that kind of mentality is what allows this stuff to happen, then it happens again and an ugly cycle is born.

I just spent 18 months in London (bn back for 6 weeks now) and I found the customer service to be fantastic on the most part... Im aware that alot say it isnt the best, but coming from SA standards it was unbelievable!

Sky were my broadband provider in the UK, the messed me around and tried REALLY hard to make it up for me, I ended up getting a discount and free line rental for a year and when I had to cancel a month before my contract was due, they waived any cancellation fee due to the issues I experienced when I joined... Fantastic customer-centric approach!!
 
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Well I seem to be getting decent speeds here..... Microsoft download: 22KBps.... FTP, 12KBps..... web/other, 8KBps...... looks like my 40KBps.....
But then again, the people that browse facebok at work all day long have already left...
 
Hey guys,

Likely not the news you want to hear but maybe a step in the right direction. Unfortuntely we seemed to be the only vocal company present about the quality of service. No one else, and I know that some of the big guys were there, said a word. Maybe I started it all off a bit strongly telling Jason, the COO and a few others that our customers were basically 'pissed off'. I also took up most of the meeting as not many people seemed to want to give feedback or input in to it... either that or i just talk too much!

Sum total is this:
- They have received very few complaints about the speed, until we handed them the file of our clients who had performed speed tests for us as proof.
- They believe they are offering the better service, but haven't checked the MWeb service to see.
- They believe that MWeb will fail in 2-3 months as it's 'unsustainable'... something that I felt was an excuse for not reacting.
- 3% of the users account for 40% of the usage and they wanted to know if we will back them cancelling their accounts. We said 'no' this is not about the user using the system it's about 'do we have the products and pricing in place' to service them correctly.
- They say that their network / IPC is not having issues and it's been upgraded twice in the last two weeks. EDIT: This contradicts what their IT staff are saying to ours, however, they would only confirm it verbally. I wonder if people are hiding things and are causing the lack of knowledge!
- Apparantly 75% of the ADSL issues they looked in to and resolved were Telkom related, however, that was not their fall baack. They would first assume it was their issue until proven differently.
- I called for clarity with all of this.
+++ Let's get an online wiki map showing 'exchange/DSLAM issues' where customers, ISP's, IS and Telkom can feedback on issues.
+++ Let's get an interactive RSS feed showing the network status (e.g. there have been 3 massive SAT-3/SAFE and SEACOM failures in the last 6 weeks).
+++ Let's start an online forum between ISPs and IS to discuss 'future products', ongoing issues etc etc... to allow clarity and feedback directly to the management.

They are having a meeting this evening to analyse all of this and come up with solutions. We shouldn't expect to hear back for 2 weeks... which I felt was disappointing as the meeting was supposed to help them include the custoemr viewpoint in to their thinking and not just a 'piece-meal' offering of it.

At 3 separate times after the meeting different IS guys suggested that they should offer a 'per GB' cost and then we can charge and do what we want with the shaping/throttling of the product. This scared me as it's the product that Afrihost are working with right now and one that we do not believe is right for the progression of the market. Tier 1's provide Tier 1 services... Tier 2's and 3's do what they can.

There does seem to be a massive issue right now where most of the resellers in this country do not have their own network systems and infrastructure of service and are just glorified marketing arms. Therefore, if their ADSL profit margins drop significantly they will all fail as a business. We were the only company there who said that we don't really care about the profit margin but about the qulisty of service... we will provide extra service on the ADSL product where we will make money. They just need to make sure that the service is good enough quality and reasonably priced.

Unfortunately, I feel that IS's concern will be with the wrong people because it's a major part of their business and so feel they will have to pander to it... very likely unsuccessfully.

So, that kind of covers most of the above questions. It was good that they held the meeting but we will see what comes of it. 2 weeks is not an answer and they seemed to think that our clients are loyal enough to hang around for a decent or compeitive service... and they didn't seem to understand the cost and time involved in winning one back after they have left you.

Don't lose faith though. IS are 75% of the 'internet' in South Africa... that's bloody huge. If they don't work it out soon then they will.

One of the head guys who was there. Not sure who he was, as he left quickly, asked for my number and I gave it to girl he sent over. Hopefully he'll give me a call and we can discuss strategy, moving forward and management of the system. What was clear was that everyone was unprepared for this and they are still reeling from the effects.

Telkom phone installations have almost doubled to 11,000 installs a month but that still has to multiply several times again to get this country somewhere within 10 years.

Again, more feedback tomorrow as we start bugging these guys directly for more answers and pushing for the clarity that they thought was a good idea.


EDIT:
I know that there are 'wiki map' system out there to help get the ball rolling on the transparency. I intend to push this for them and if it means doing the work ourselves and handing it over then so be it. If anyone knows of software (like the johburg hijack site) that we can just install and setup that would be a huge help. Thanks!
 
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Thank you for your post and for the information you gave us.
IS seems to be giving the excuse that Mweb gave back when local uncapped still existed.
What IS needs to look at though..... what portion of the current usage is local? I don't support local (or intl for that matter) torrent site but I remember that the average speed was 3-5MB/s... now that is only upload speed, so total transfer would be 6-10MB/s...... and that's only one of the sites. The other site also carries that much, and possible even more.

I hope IS will see that there is a problem to be solved and will solve it in another way than just simply throttling us to death.
 
@pPedrick

Thanks for the feedback, but I fear that if IS do not get their arse into gear they and you and the other isp's reselling their product will lose out. Frankly its getting to the situation where people are beginning to say let's go back to TI - it's stable and you know where you stand. ALL other isps's seem to be suffering severe instability - you just don't know what you are getting from one moment to the next and that's a total no-no for me anyway.

IS's attitude is NOT reassuring, it seems they are not even going to investigate the problem, which in turn suggests to me that what we are getting is what was intended in the first place.

Please can you post with their agreement, a senior IS persons email address so that all those posting their problems here can also send a copy of their speed tests to him/her and then they can realise what a useless product they are providing? IS seem intent on offering the same kind product as Afrihost - disemboweled and useless.

The one good thing that Afrihost did was to offer early cancellations. Will you also be offering the same?
 
Thanks for the responses guys,
IS will be looking in to the reported speed issues. They will have no choice as it's already being followed up on a management level now and I won't let this go until a reasonable conclusion. Keep sending in your speeds tests and command line pings and we'll keep forwarding. We now have a large number of outstanding issues with them on this and we are forwarding every single ticket number to them to follow up.

Regarding the product stability I took three things away.
- IS are having their own problems and either the management are denying it or the IT team or hiding it.
- The SAT-3/SAFE and SEACOM cables have been up and down over the past 6 weeks.
- Telkom seem to be in a mad panic as their exchanges in certain places are overloading and they are either not informing anyone or denying it.

2 of these issues will effect anyone with ADSL. The other is about cleaning house and making hard and fast and well thought out decisions... now.

I do hold out hope and again, I am expecting an interesting phone call or two shortly from some of their senior management to discuss this further. I am also tempted to do some more business-case modelling on a grander scale to help IS with their own figures. I'll let you know what comes of it as I'd rather spend time helping out this issue for the benefit of everyone rather than sitting on the other side of the desk beating my head on the wall.

Regarding early cancellations - unless we get an agreement from IS then I can't agree to this. We have to pay the full amount to IS for this product, used or not... .i.e. R460 per account. Afrihost could offer this as they are buying a differnt product, 'per GB' and then offering it as uncapped and so they do not lose out. We dont have the cash flow to throw that kind of cash away, so I'm really sorry.

I will also follow this up as well and get back to you.

Again, the tidal wave which is uncapped is still in full force and it seems to be effecting the infrastructure of the key players. Although the usage will die down, there is still a LOT of infrastructure work that needs to be done to ensure everyone gets the level of service they require moving forward. Apparently even MWeb are now going back to request further investment for upgrades to cover the uptake theyve received... again, I can't confirm this as I heard it third party... but we do know that we have a lot more internet users and internet use. If IS are doing the same thing and they are 75% of South African internet traffic then you know it's BIG... I guess the question is 'what now?'.

I believe the answer is transparancy. The 'holes in the system need to be highlighted' clearly and efficiently. No one is going to like it as they've been able to hide before, but it's the only way things are going to improve.

I'm going to see if we can get a this exchange/DSLAM map going in some format as a good start. e.g. we already know that Bryanston in Johburg is pushed past it's limit and so if you keep reconnecting you might get pushed on to the Rosebank exchange, which will give you the max speeds you need. All help on this is greatly appreciated and once I understand the best way to do this I'll open it up to everyone here and all the other ISPs and Tier 1's.
 
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Speedtests tonight (384 line)
Both IS speedtests to Rosebank/New York giving me 36KBps.

Steam won't connect tonight. Tried three times now.
The only protocol that I'm getting fullspeed (or anything acceptable) on tonight, apart from http, is ftp.
Checked news/p2p..... under 2KBps.

@ ppedrick.... how do we know what exchange we are on? My hostname says 196.215.x.x.dynamic.isadsl.co.za, so it doesnt seem to indicate it now. The last one that I can recognise is tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za.
 
Thanks ppedrick for your very informative answers. I hope thatthese issues will be resolved soon and I will keep forwarding my IS speedtest results to you guys to give to IS.
 
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