Industry Is Dropping 60fps

[Necuno]

Industry Is Dropping 60fps

While some fans lament over Assassin’s Creed Unity‘s 900p/30fps lock, Unity‘s World Level Design Director is taking the time to explain why 60fps is not only unnecessary, but also harmful to some video games. Nicolas Guérin believes the standard takes away from the cinematic experience, and sees the practice fading from the industry overall.

“At Ubisoft for a long time we wanted to push 60 fps. I don’t think it was a good idea because you don’t gain that much from 60 fps and it doesn’t look like the real thing,” Guérin told TechRadar. ”It’s a bit like The Hobbit movie, it looked really weird.”

“And in other games it’s the same – like the Rachet and Clank series [where it was dropped]. So I think collectively in the video game industry we’re dropping that standard because it’s hard to achieve, it’s twice as hard as 30fps, and its not really that great in terms of rendering quality of the picture and the image.”

Assassin’s Creed Unity is likely to perform on an outstanding level either way, but it would certainly be something to see the industry as a whole overturn beliefs that 60fps is the long-awaited, bright future of development. We’ll wait and see whether 60fps becomes an unwarranted feature rather than standard quality expectation.

I don't get this... perhaps he never played quake (1).

 

[Polymathic]

Industry Is Dropping 60fps



I don't get this... perhaps he never played quake (1).

I think it has to do with the fact that both the PS4 and XBOne having trouble reaching 1080p 60fps because they are pretty underpowered. More so the XBOne

 

[SYNERGY]

I think it has to do with the fact that both the PS4 and XBOne having trouble reaching 1080p 60fps because they are pretty underpowered. More so the XBOne

My thoughts as well...

 

[Necuno]

My thoughts as well...

Which is rather bad with some development houses doing their code base for consoles first and then pc.

Just look to a few new titles, I see they come 30 fps locked

 

[cerebus]

They're not dropping it in all titles, only where it makes more sense. 30fps is unplayable in FPS and other fast action type games. But in things like AC, it can be helpful to ensure a consistent experience (nothing worse than a framerate fluctuating between 30-60 frames constantly) and a more detailed environment. However, it's just not true that 60fps is like The Hobbit in games - a higher framerate in games looks smoother if it's consistent, and that's all there is to it. But if you have to trade-off detail vs fps and the difference in the gameplay is negligible, rather go for more detail IMO.

 

[Necuno]

They're not dropping it in all titles, only where it makes more sense. 30fps is unplayable in FPS and other fast action type games. But in things like AC, it can be helpful to ensure a consistent experience (nothing worse than a framerate fluctuating between 30-60 frames constantly) and a more detailed environment. However, it's just not true that 60fps is like The Hobbit in games - a higher framerate in games looks smoother if it's consistent, and that's all there is to it. But if you have to trade-off detail vs fps and the difference in the gameplay is negligible, rather go for more detail IMO.

Not sure that I buy the whole story. They seem to play it off that the only better looking titles is 30 fps titles.

Perhaps its time to write better engines?

I'm quite sure a game can look really good and in fact play back at 30+fps. IMHO its just another "online drm" are better for you.

 

[HDS]

[video=youtube;eXJh9ut2hrc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJh9ut2hrc[/video]

As always, developers thinking we are idiots \o/

 

[Tw171]

I think it has to do with the fact that both the PS4 and XBOne having trouble reaching 1080p 60fps because they are pretty underpowered. More so the XBOne

Ubisoft later explained that the reason behind the 30fps 900p lock is that its CPU bound not GPU, and primarily; in that dealing with AI and other assets, the CPUs simply don't have enough heft to deal with the compute. The interesting part, however, is that they ruled out any GPGPU, because it would, in its current state take to long to optimize. I suspect that, as many have already pointed out, they are dealing with inefficient coding runs, most probably because of aiming for system parity, so making use of a sort of "common denominator".

The real culprit is, as you mention, the XB1. There is some hope that the new Tiled Resources and DX12 might aid it a bit, but in the long run, its going to be the anchor in cross platform titles. Just remember that the consoles, specifically PS4, isn't as weak as they are touted by the PC fandom. One cannot do a direct hardware comparison. The software gets optimized to run on this specific hardware config. MIT tech review has already run an up-scaled 4k Crysis on a PS4 devkit (note devkits have faster CPU & GPUs and more ram) but it is a good indicator of what proper use API and efficient coding can do.

 

[Polymathic]

Ubisoft later explained that the reason behind the 30fps 900p lock is that its CPU bound not GPU, and primarily; in that dealing with AI and other assets, the CPUs simply don't have enough heft to deal with the compute. The interesting part, however, is that they ruled out any GPGPU, because it would, in its current state take to long to optimize. I suspect that, as many have already pointed out, they are dealing with inefficient coding runs, most probably because of aiming for system parity, so making use of a sort of "common denominator".

The real culprit is, as you mention, the XB1. There is some hope that the new Tiled Resources and DX12 might aid it a bit, but in the long run, its going to be the anchor in cross platform titles. Just remember that the consoles, specifically PS4, isn't as weak as they are touted by the PC fandom. One cannot do a direct hardware comparison. The software gets optimized to run on this specific hardware config. MIT tech review has already run an up-scaled 4k Crysis on a PS4 devkit (note devkits have faster CPU & GPUs and more ram) but it is a good indicator of what proper use API and efficient coding can do.

Up-scaling is not the same as running natively on 4k, the fact is the PS4 is already pushed to it's limit by 1st party developers. This is going to be a real short console generation IMO, we could see early leaks of the PS5 and Xbox 10 or whatever Microsoft chooses to call it by next year.

 

[Tw171]

Up-scaling is not the same as running natively on 4k, the fact is the PS4 is already pushed to it's limit by 1st party developers. This is going to be a real short console generation IMO, we could see early leaks of the PS5 and Xbox 10 or whatever Microsoft chooses to call it by next year.

Doubt that. Maybe shorter xb1 lifespan. But realistically, neither company can afford the bad PR of a really short life-cycle. That being said, most analysts agree that the PS4 & XB1 was released about a year or two too soon. Next-next gen consoles will probably appear 2019/20, so you are looking at a life-cycle approximately half that of the last gen.

I did not intend to give the impression that up-scaled was the same as a natively run resolution. However, bearing in mind that most of you high-end GPUs currently on the market struggle to run 30FPS at 4k, we should be duly impressed.

And just BTW, the playstation (and xb) are not at their limits, most devs are still learning the systems. It will take a couple of years to get to the kind of mastery that devs like Rockstar and naughty dog had with the x360 & PS3.

 

[Polymathic]

Doubt that. Maybe shorter xb1 lifespan. But realistically, neither company can afford the bad PR of a really short life-cycle. That being said, most analysts agree that the PS4 & XB1 was released about a year or two too soon. Next-next gen consoles will probably appear 2019/20, so you are looking at a life-cycle approximately half that of the last gen.

I did not intend to give the impression that up-scaled was the same as a natively run resolution. However, bearing in mind that most of you high-end GPUs currently on the market struggle to run 30FPS at 4k, we should be duly impressed.

And just BTW, the playstation (and xb) are not at their limits, most devs are still learning the systems. It will take a couple of years to get to the kind of mastery that devs like Rockstar and naughty dog had with the x360 & PS3.

What's to learn they both are basically PCs running x86 architecture? 4K televisions going to reach critical mass with the next 2 years, the way I see it is Nintendo is in the best position to capitalise from it.

 

[Tw171]

What's to learn they both are basically PCs running x86 architecture? 4K televisions going to reach critical mass with the next 2 years, the way I see it is Nintendo is in the best position to capitalise from it.

HD tvs became mainstream in the last-gen's life-cycle, but neither the PS3 or Xb360 ran at HD, it was all up-scaled. Yet, look at the improvements in graphical fidelity towards the end of the cycle. I suspect that we will see much the same this time around.

 

[Necuno]

[video=youtube;eXJh9ut2hrc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJh9ut2hrc[/video]

As always, developers thinking we are idiots \o/

// thread

lol.

Crysis 3 / Witcher 2 certainly is **** running at 30+fps

 

[konfab]

What's to learn they both are basically PCs running x86 architecture? 4K televisions going to reach critical mass with the next 2 years, the way I see it is Nintendo is in the best position to capitalise from it.

They may be x86, but they are still consoles with fixed hardware, it does take time for developers to optimise their engines. Once they do so consoles really get into a league of their own when it comes for performance/price.

If you want the clearest demonstration:

 

[Beachless]

Yea we get this with every generation where devs want to throw hardware at it instead of optimizing the code. The current consoles will be around for a good few years to come even if there are a few compromises compared to the pc version.

 

[bgotapen]

ever since I invested in a 120hz pc monitor I can't stand 60hz monitors anymore. 120 fps /120 hz is heaven!

I pity the fool that still uses consoles...

 

[Mr.Jax]

ever since I invested in a 120hz pc monitor I can't stand 60hz monitors anymore. 120 fps /120 hz is heaven!

I pity the fool that still uses consoles...

Yup me too; I can't stand 60hz and notice it immediately.

30fps is the absolute minimum FPS required for acceptable gameplay....the absolute minimum you fools (IMHO).

 

[SaiyanZ]

Now that I'm used to 60fps, going back to 30fps makes it feel as if the mouse/game is lagging.

 

[Ninja'd]

I thought they were gonna blame the Animus for 30 fps like the glitches in AssCreed.

 

[Moosedrool]

Is all just a excuse for lazy game developers that doesn't know how to build economical levels considering the processing power for it.