Is it really that bad in SA?

SoulTax said:
Death rate in SA is pretty astronomical. If you take the Murder rate and the Road accidents death rate. Figure the percentage chance you have to become one of those statistics. Most people would be shocked to find out that in a 70 year life you have between a 3 and 4% chance to die to one of those unnatural causes.

Now of course, your chances will differ depending on the area that you live, the people that you associate with, the roads you travel on, etc... But 3.5% is way too large for my liking. That is only one individual. Families are made up of much more than that. So chances are that in your entire life, you will have to say good-bye to a family member due to a horrific road death or murder.

So with these extra freedoms that people talk about, comes a not insignificant chance of a brutal death. People like to scoff at it, when this kind of thing is brought up. Because as humans we avoid death and the thought of death on the whole.
I am willing to bet that most people on this forum can tick one of these boxes:

Either <you> or someone you know has: [ You obviously doesn't apply to death scenarios ]
  • Died in a traffic related accident.
  • Been Murdered.
  • Narrowly survived a traffic accident
  • Narrowly survived an attempted murder
  • Been Hijacked at gunpoint
  • Narrowly escaped being hijacked
  • Been the victim of a home invasion (Whether successful or not)
  • Had a gun or knife directed at their person
  • Had something taken off of their person, by an aggressor. (Mugging)

Personally I can tick of multiple items and multiple times.
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Sounds like the USA
 
SoulTax said:
Death rate in SA is pretty astronomical. If you take the Murder rate and the Road accidents death rate. Figure the percentage chance you have to become one of those statistics. Most people would be shocked to find out that in a 70 year life you have between a 3 and 4% chance to die to one of those unnatural causes.

Now of course, your chances will differ depending on the area that you live, the people that you associate with, the roads you travel on, etc... But 3.5% is way too large for my liking. That is only one individual. Families are made up of much more than that. So chances are that in your entire life, you will have to say good-bye to a family member due to a horrific road death or murder.

So with these extra freedoms that people talk about, comes a not insignificant chance of a brutal death. People like to scoff at it, when this kind of thing is brought up. Because as humans we avoid death and the thought of death on the whole.
I am willing to bet that most people on this forum can tick one of these boxes:

Either <you> or someone you know has: [ You obviously doesn't apply to death scenarios ]
  • 1Died in a traffic related accident.
  • 2Been Murdered.
  • 3Narrowly survived a traffic accident
  • 4Narrowly survived an attempted murder
  • 5Been Hijacked at gunpoint
  • 6Narrowly escaped being hijacked
  • 7Been the victim of a home invasion (Whether successful or not)
  • 8Had a gun or knife directed at their person
  • 9Had something taken off of their person, by an aggressor. (Mugging)

Personally I can tick of multiple items and multiple times.
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1. Friend, hit by a taxi
2. Friend, home invasion
3. Me, nearly hit by taxi
4. brother
5. Friend
6. Friend
7. Friend
8. brother
9. brother

I only mention the closest relative. The mugging/held at knife/gunpoint I can point at quite a few friends. Note those are all close friends, not acquaintances.
 
biometrics said:
None of them for myself, family or people I know.
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Well that explains why you're always so optimistic about SA.


Died in a traffic related accident. - None, but hardly a ZA problem
Been Murdered - Aunt & her husband
Narrowly survived a traffic accident - Friend, but thats hardly a ZA problem
Narrowly survived an attempted murder - Friend, got riddled with bullets
Been Hijacked at gunpoint - 4 friends and 2 relatives
Narrowly escaped being hijacked - Not sure what constitutes "narrow"? One of above friends drove off with gun pointed at him & bullet narrowly missed his head
Been the victim of a home invasion (Whether successful or not) - Myself and assorted people
Had a gun or knife directed at their person - Myself and assorted people
Had something taken off of their person, by an aggressor. (Mugging) - None that I can think of

oh and you're missing some:
Taken hostage - 3 friends
Tortured - 1 friend
 
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there is crime in SA, we have unemployment mostly for the less educated and unskilled, our economy is not doing well, all these things are not unique to SA. We have many other problems as alluded in a number of posts in this thread but most of us are still alive, still employed and still enjoying our lives, even the OP's mother is still alive and still living in SA despite all the things she said about our country.

some people are of the view that there Is a fantasy land somewhere faraway from here, where none of the problems we have here in SA exists, I am sure they have stats and facts to prove their point and I truly hope that they find their peace in this mystery land.

if OP truly wants to return to SA, she will come back and spend some time at her Cape Town home (I hope it was not one of the torn down buildings), I am very optimistic that she will make it to Cape Town alive and still have time to evaluate things and make an informed decision on whether she wants to stay in SA on move on.

Proudly South African
 
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thechamp said:
there is crime in SA, we have unemployment mostly for the less educated and unskilled, our economy is not doing well, all these things are not unique to SA. We have many other problems as alluded in a number of posts in this thread but most of us are still alive, still employed and still enjoying our lives, even the OP's mother is still alive and still living in SA despite all the things she said about our country.
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Not really setting the bar very high, nor a forward thinker, eh? ;) Also, the OP's mother may not have a choice but to stay.

thechamp said:
some people are of the view that there Is a fantasy land somewhere faraway from here, where none of the problems we have here in SA exists, I am sure they have stats and facts to prove their point and I truly hope that they find their peace in this mystery land.
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Nobody has that view, never mind a significant number. You've managed to roll a straw man and perfectionist fallacy into one.

thechamp said:
if OP truly wants to return to SA, she will come back and spend some time at her Cape Town home (I hope it was not one of the torn down buildings), I am very optimistic that she will make it to Cape Town alive and still have time to evaluate things and make an informed decision on whether she wants to stay in SA on move on.

Proudly South African
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Proudly Not Deluding Myself With A False Sense Of Loyalty
 
cguy said:
Not really setting the bar very high, nor a forward thinker, eh? ;) Also, the OP's mother may not have a choice but to stay.
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Not really my in intention to set the bar high or low, and YES most of us are still alive and well despite all the odds, and the forward thinking that you refer to, I have been a forward thinker since the days of the National Party and I was optimistic that despite the oppression and everything I will be alive to see the dawn of democracy and equal opportunity for all, crime was there at the time, the were protests, there was unemployment but I was optimistic even then and there were many positive things in SA even in those dark days of apartheid. it's 2016 in a democratic SA, we still have challenges we face everyday and I am optimistic that we will overcome them.

as for the OP's mom I am not sure of the reasons for staying put in such 'dire circumstances'(maybe she does not have a choice as you say) but I am sorry that she has to go through the pain and anguish that she is experiencing and I hope she finds a solution.

Proudly South African
 
freddster said:
Go to facebook, read this on the MyBB account... A new report by Statistics SA shows that the young white population group in South Africa has declined substantially in recent years. [Via BusinessTech]
My question is "Are you freakin insane?"
Questions to consider to come back ... Are you white, If yes, stay away from this ****hole.
Do you like serivce delivery, if yes, stay away
Do you like to feel safe , if Yes, stay away
This country is ****ed, so don't come back. And listen to your mother. Go and look what made the news since the start of the year.
Are you planning to or do you have chiildren? there is no future for them here.
This country is ruled by people who are voted in by others who live in the field. Someone like that has the same say as to how the country should be run than a brain surgeon.
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do you also don't have a choice of leaving? you seem to be having a miserable time here in SA.

what people living in the field are you talking about?
 
thechamp said:
Not really my in intention to set the bar high or low, and YES most of us are still alive and well despite all the odds
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Survival is setting the bar reeeeeeaaaaally low. SA has the potential to thrive (favourable climate, great resources, ideal geographic trade position) - but will never live up to its potential if the current shtshow continues.

thechamp said:
Proudly South African
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Now that is something I can support. Being proud of ones country is always a good thing.
 
thechamp said:
Not really my in intention to set the bar high or low, and YES most of us are still alive and well despite all the odds, and the forward thinking that you refer to, I have been a forward thinker since the days of the National Party and I was optimistic that despite the oppression and everything I will be alive to see the dawn of democracy and equal opportunity for all, crime was there at the time, the were protests, there was unemployment but I was optimistic even then and there were many positive things in SA even in those dark days of apartheid. it's 2016 in a democratic SA, we still have challenges we face everyday and I am optimistic that we will overcome them.

as for the OP's mom I am not sure of the reasons for staying put in such 'dire circumstances'(maybe she does not have a choice as you say) but I am sorry that she has to go through the pain and anguish that she is experiencing and I hope she finds a solution.

Proudly South African
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You seem to have a fairly poor grasp of what "most" means, and how that relates to the actual "odds" and "statistics". It's not that you're wrong, it's that it is non-sequitur. Most smokers don't die from lung cancer "despite all the odds" (which do actually support, not dying from lung cancer) - this doesn't mean that smoking is a hot idea. The fact that you are making any argument at all based on this is frightening.

RE: Apartheid - not being backward thinking, doesn't mean you are forward thinking.
 
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cguy said:
You seem to have a fairly poor grasp of what "most" means, and how that relates to the actual "odds" and "statistics". It's not that you're wrong, it's that it is non-sequitur. Most smokers don't die from lung cancer "despite all the odds" (which do actually support, not dying from lung cancer) - this doesn't mean that smoking is a hot idea. The fact that you are making any argument at all based on this is frightening.

RE: Apartheid - not being backward thinking, doesn't mean you are forward thinking.
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even if you were to tell me that my grasp of English grammar Is fairly poor you won't be far off the the mark , I still have to refer to the dictionary most of the time, fortunately this thread is not about English grammar.

I do however welcome any schooling from anyone who knows better than me. I appreciate the correct use of any of our official languages and I will make every effort to speak good English.

/ looking for sequitur in the oxford dictionary
 
Yes, other countries have crime but criminals are punished.

SA is a country of no consequences.
 
To the people that sit on this forum bad mouthing the country- why are you still here if I may ask? Please don't take the question as provoking you, is it kids, money?
 
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A lot of articles going around this forum about "white genocide" and if you white stay away, just an article I can across awhile ago and a part of it that I copied from it:

“Whites are far less likely to be murdered than their black or coloured counterparts,” Lizette Lancaster, who manages the Institute for Security Studies crime and justice hub, told Africa Check. This is supported by an analysis of a national sample of 1378 murder dockets conducted by police in 2009. In 86.9% of the cases, the victims were Africans. Whites accounted for 1.8% of the cases (although whites make up 8.85% of the population).

According to Lancaster official police statistics show that between April 1994 and March 2012 a total of 361 015 people were murdered in South Africa. Applying the 1.8% figure, it would mean that roughly 6,498 whites have been murdered since April 1994.

Even if there were some variation on the 1.8% figure, the number of white murder victims would still fail to come anywhere close to filling a soccer stadium. The fact is that whites are less likely to be murdered than any other race in South Africa. The current murder rate of white South Africans is also equivalent to, or lower than, murder rates for whites recorded between 1979 and 1991.

- See more at: https://africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/#.dpuf

Touch wood I haven't been affected by any serious crime and last time I was in the UK I used my credit card at the airport and a few days later I started getting messages of purchases I didn't make. Crime is everywhere, we need to be a bit more careful. Bring those dollars you made in the last 16 years and live here like a king compared to anywhere else in the world, spend some of it on security and be vigilant and you improve your odds of being a victim of crime.
 
ProtechIT said:
To the people that sit on this forum bad mouthing the country- why are you still here if I may ask? Please don't take the question as provoking you, is it kids, money?
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We don't have visas, and can't get them. Ancestors been here for too long.

Qualifications don't do it.
 
ProtechIT said:
To the people that sit on this forum bad mouthing the country- why are you still here if I may ask? Please don't take the question as provoking you, is it kids, money?
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Roots and family.
Kid finishing school next year.
Also gonna be tough to start again in mid 40s.
 
ProtechIT said:
To the people that sit on this forum bad mouthing the country- why are you still here if I may ask? Please don't take the question as provoking you, is it kids, money?
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Family ties and a decent job make living here bearable. I would leave in a heartbeat if I had a foreign passport or could buy a golden visa, or if i had qualifications to find work elsewhere.

I would then pursuade every family member in SA to join me.
 
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