Is it really that bad in SA?

freddster said:
Scary but I don't even believe in that anymore, I know of devs, MS qualified who battles to move jobs. Go for interviews and no move. One is 42, other 33. So yes, even if you are highly skilled dev, stay away.
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I would be skeptical of this. Everyone is software development thinks they are highly skilled, even when they aren't. Years in the business doesn't make you highly skilled. I had 8 years dev experience and companies came knocking at my door. My last job in SA I was head hunted to fill a position. Companies in SA have very easy entry tests to gauge if you can do the basics and most "skilled" devs cant even do these.
 
Kilgore_Trout_Redux said:
^^vampire^^ - sucks to hear about your car. One last parting gift from the kind folk of South Africa.

That hands in your pocket thing is a tough habit to break and I still do it in crowded places along with the night time routine of going around the house checking the doors and windows are closed and locked.
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I think the hands in my pockets thing I feel keep. I have on occasion by mistake left the front door unlocked here or the car unlocked for a few days. Funnily enough the car was still there along with the GPS still mounted to the window and the car is parked in the street nogal.

They stole the GPS out of my GFs brothers car while it was on the property and while we were at home in SA.
 
^^vampire^^ said:
I would be skeptical of this. Everyone is software development thinks they are highly skilled, even when they aren't. Years in the business doesn't make you highly skilled. I had 8 years dev experience and companies came knocking at my door. My last job in SA I was head hunted to fill a position. Companies in SA have very easy entry tests to gauge if you can do the basics and most "skilled" devs cant even do these.
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Think the size of the economy, and type of systems also play a role? Depends on the sytems worked on. To compare someone who builds systems for NASA and those who build for Starbucks.
 
And just got robbed in the night, lovely.
Great way to wake up in the morning. At least they didn't get into the main house. Only ~R4k in goods.
Haven't been robbed here in 10 years before this.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
This is perhaps the more interesting question here, so let's probe it.

What about South Africa is so valuable, unique, or appealing that it outweighs the negatives?
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I'm not quite sure if it outweighs the negatives (I wouldn't be looking to move otherwise), and none of it is really unique I don't think but a few things like:
Literally the entire family of my wife and myself are here.
Freedom - I've tried explaining this 5 times now, finding it difficult but we have way more freedom here (which is obviously a double edged sword). But perhaps one example - I can wander around on my bike in the country side and the worst that'll happen is a farmer asks me to turn around rather (happened twice, and only because the road ahead was flooded/blocked). Many European countries 1) don't really have "unexplored" parts 2) Won't allow you to be on those paths anyway. On a related side note petrol is cheaper here too vs Europe.
The weather, I think we are in a pretty good spot, but granted there are places that are similar. None that apply to me though in terms of jobs. Like Australia or NZ are cool places from what I've heard (minus the people in Oz :p) but I'll be extremely hard pressed to find work there
Everything seems close, the sea, mountains, forests, anything. But if you're not the outdoor type of course that is a null point. I think (season depending) Europe is similar, the USA it depends where you're based (parts of the north are mind numbingly flat and boring).
And a whole stack of other things that I can't think of right now...

I refer to Europe (or Germany in particular) and USA because those are my main options because of the industry I'm in. So the above statements are more relevant to me and everyones mileage will vary. Germany I'd not like having half as many sunny days and the unending bureaucracy, whereas I dislike the health, politics and education systems in the USA, etc etc

I guess at the end of the day, if I did leave SA, I wouldn't be as bitter and twisted as some people seem to be. Yes things are bad, but there is a lot of good too. I've had tons of fun and good memories and would come back in the blink of an eye unless things got considerably worse of course.

Or have I now gone too far into the reasonable middle ground of the two side of this argument again? ;)
 
Archer said:
I can wander around on my bike in the country side and the worst that'll happen is a farmer asks me to turn around rather (happened twice, and only because the road ahead was flooded/blocked).
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Or you can get held up at gun point.

[video=youtube;wHUPs-r24NA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHUPs-r24NA[/video]
 
freddster said:
Go to facebook, read this on the MyBB account... A new report by Statistics SA shows that the young white population group in South Africa has declined substantially in recent years. [Via BusinessTech]
My question is "Are you freakin insane?"
Questions to consider to come back ... Are you white, If yes, stay away from this ****hole.
Do you like serivce delivery, if yes, stay away
Do you like to feel safe , if Yes, stay away
This country is ****ed, so don't come back. And listen to your mother. Go and look what made the news since the start of the year.
Are you planning to or do you have chiildren? there is no future for them here.
This country is ruled by people who are voted in by others who live in the field. Someone like that has the same say as to how the country should be run than a brain surgeon.
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+1
 
Sinbad said:
That's hardly nitpicking
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When one states ahead of time that freedom is a double edged sword, I'd expect a reasonable person to conclude that I know things can go either way.

My point is more that some people for some reason either like to moan, or only want to think about the bad things and take as many opportunities as possible to point that out to everyone else. They're kinda like vegans - how do you know someone is from SA, why they'll tell you how bad it is there of course!
 
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Archer said:
:rolleyes:

Didn't take long for someone to go nitpicking. Perhaps next time make it a vid of a motorcycle instead so that it is actually relevant to me
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If I'm not mistaken not too long ago there were incidents of motorcyclists being robbed on William Nichol Drive onramp at the N1(Randburg).
Speak of, a daughter of a mate of mine was in a traffic jam a year ago, got robbed on the highway. You can't go anywhere so just a sitting target there.
 
Archer said:
I'm not quite sure if it outweighs the negatives (I wouldn't be looking to move otherwise), and none of it is really unique I don't think but a few things like:
Literally the entire family of my wife and myself are here.
Freedom - I've tried explaining this 5 times now, finding it difficult but we have way more freedom here (which is obviously a double edged sword). But perhaps one example - I can wander around on my bike in the country side and the worst that'll happen is a farmer asks me to turn around rather (happened twice, and only because the road ahead was flooded/blocked). Many European countries 1) don't really have "unexplored" parts 2) Won't allow you to be on those paths anyway. On a related side note petrol is cheaper here too vs Europe.
The weather, I think we are in a pretty good spot, but granted there are places that are similar. None that apply to me though in terms of jobs. Like Australia or NZ are cool places from what I've heard (minus the people in Oz :p) but I'll be extremely hard pressed to find work there
Everything seems close, the sea, mountains, forests, anything. But if you're not the outdoor type of course that is a null point. I think (season depending) Europe is similar, the USA it depends where you're based (parts of the north are mind numbingly flat and boring).
And a whole stack of other things that I can't think of right now...

I refer to Europe (or Germany in particular) and USA because those are my main options because of the industry I'm in. So the above statements are more relevant to me and everyones mileage will vary. Germany I'd not like having half as many sunny days and the unending bureaucracy, whereas I dislike the health, politics and education systems in the USA, etc etc
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In all honesty, all of that can be found easily in other countries. Do other countries not having amazing outdoor experiences? Mountains, rivers, lakes, beaches?

Ditto for education, healthcare, politics (ours is awful).

And the 'freedom' angle I simply don't get. It's similar to people complaining about other countries being nanny states. I've yet to see someone claim that make any kind of substantial argument about it.

Archer said:
I guess at the end of the day, if I did leave SA, I wouldn't be as bitter and twisted as some people seem to be. Yes things are bad, but there is a lot of good too. I've had tons of fun and good memories and would come back in the blink of an eye unless things got considerably worse of course.

Or have I now gone too far into the reasonable middle ground of the two side of this argument again? ;)
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Well, if you do end up leaving, then it's absolutely a good idea to not leave in a bitter mindset. It just breeds resentment and then you end up starting your new experience like that. Not a good recipe for success.
 
I love SA, + we have one of the best murder rates in the world !
But seriously, it's not so bad. I worked abroad for 10 years, and still prefer it here. If you're considering returning, try keep some foreign clients if possible.
Plenty of work here if you're self employed and self-motivated, and far less red tape I find.

Many who move abroad need to justify it by slagging off SA. Quite natural, but unnecessary. Live and let live
 
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