Is Java A Language For Sissies ? What's your take ?

I know very little about Java tbh & thus this is mostly a layman's speculation, but on the whole it seems to be a bit of a compromise. Regardless of what you look it it seems to fall just short.

e.g.

Simple & practical....python kicks it in the balls.
Speed...ASM/C/C++ own it
Teaching potential...Pascal/Delphi are far superior

Also...it feels weirdly slow & bloated from what I've seen as far as practical implementations goes.

idk its one of the few languages that has never appealed to me at all (along with VB...dear god).
 
HavocXphere said:
I know very little about Java tbh & thus this is mostly a layman's speculation, but on the whole it seems to be a bit of a compromise. Regardless of what you look it it seems to fall just short.

e.g.

Simple & practical....python kicks it in the balls.
Speed...ASM/C/C++ own it
Teaching potential...Pascal/Delphi are far superior

Also...it feels weirdly slow & bloated from what I've seen as far as practical implementations goes.

idk its one of the few languages that has never appealed to me at all (along with VB...dear god).
Click to expand...

Good luck coding for Android.
 
_kabal_ said:
Got to be a little mad to choose to write a desktop app in java :)

Java owns php so hard when it comes to web development it is not even close
Click to expand...

Yes I never write my Android apps in Java, either!

Just written a cross platform JavaFX desktop application and I must say it looks excellent.
 
HavocXphere said:
I know very little about Java tbh & thus this is mostly a layman's speculation, but on the whole it seems to be a bit of a compromise. Regardless of what you look it it seems to fall just short.

e.g.

Simple & practical....python kicks it in the balls.
Speed...ASM/C/C++ own it
Teaching potential...Pascal/Delphi are far superior

Also...it feels weirdly slow & bloated from what I've seen as far as practical implementations goes.

idk its one of the few languages that has never appealed to me at all (along with VB...dear god).
Click to expand...

You are right, you know very little about java :)
 
I think the "language for sissies" came from developers who have looked at the language, probably Java SE, and based on the simplicity judged it inferior.

_kabal_ said:
Java devlopment today is completely different to java of 3/4 years ago. I seriously doubt there is any language that has a framework as complete, powerful and unobstructing as spring framework and its sister spring MVC. It has basically mad JavaEE redundant, and even JavaEE 8 will not catchup to current spring 3.2


The java community and associated projects lead the innovation, of this there is no doubt
Click to expand...

I noticed that you are one of the few posters here that has actually used Java for what it is intended.

I think most people here read Java and think of Java SE desktop/console applications rather than web or the dreaded "enterprise" applications.

I tried typing up an explanation of what Spring is but gave up. I think I've used close to every single part of Spring (I have a book "Spring Recipes" and I've definitely done everything in that book and more). To me trying to explain Spring, completely without code is simply just not possible.

It must be one of the largest and most complex pieces of software in existence but few people use it in every facet.

But yeah, I absolutely love Spring MVC. I've written some incredible complex web-services with MVC and Rest Template and have gained much respect for the framework just because of that.

I really don't get why someone would move to C/C++. I've used it extensively combined with JNI for best of both worlds situations. C++ really it isn't very complex or special. Just very tedious and lacks so much in power.

I would say the real indicator is the silicon valley. The largest software companies there rely heavily on Java (have your pick, Gmail, YouTube, Twitter, AWS, etc) or .NET (MS). Working there will give most people here a new perspective of what software complexity is.

Languages in comparison to large applications, are sorry to say, not even worth mentioning. They just aren't complex, no matter the language.

I quickly realized after university that people who brag about "complexity" in a language typically don't have much experience or haven't worked on large scale and distributed. Or at least in my experience...
 
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zippy said:
You are right, you know very little about java :)
Click to expand...
Well I hope you code better than you argue.

Seriously...I say I know little about Java...and you respond with "you know little about Java". I've had actual parrots fielding better responses....

Oh and>>>> :)
 
Gnome said:
I think the "language for sissies" came from developers who have looked at the language, probably Java SE, and based on the simplicity judged it inferior.



I noticed that you are one of the few posters here that has actually used Java for what it is intended.

I think most people here read Java and think of Java SE desktop/console applications rather than web or the dreaded "enterprise" applications.

I tried typing up an explanation of what Spring is but gave up. I think I've used close to every single part of Spring (I have a book "Spring Recipes" and I've definitely done everything in that book and more). To me trying to explain Spring, completely without code is simply just not possible.

It must be one of the largest and most complex pieces of software in existence but few people use it in every facet.

But yeah, I absolutely love Spring MVC. I've written some incredible complex web-services with MVC and Rest Template and have gained much respect for the framework just because of that.

I really don't get why someone would move to C/C++. I've used it extensively combined with JNI. To the laymen, that means I write an application in C++ for native functionality then write an interface in Java using JNI to make a native -> managed bridge so to speak. C++ really it isn't very complex or special. Just very tedious and lacks so much in power, feels like going back to ASM comparatively.

Programming for sissies, such an entertaining term :p Join one of the large silicon valley companies and work on a distributed app in Java (or MS for .NET). Then come back here and tell us about this sissy language and how you wish you rather could have done it in C++

LOL, no.
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Java for me is Spring. I wouldnt want to do Java without it.

here is a tiny part of Spring's amazingness

Code: 
@Entity //automagically creates and manages your datamodel, eg DB table, mongo document
public class Foo {
	
	private Long id;
	private String name;
}

@Repository
public interface FooRepository extends JpaRepository<Foo, Long> { //uses JPA and your vender of choice, eg Hibernate
	Foo findByName(String name); //no need to implement interface, also get access to standard CRUD
}

@Controller
@RequestMapping(value = "/foo") //maps http://localhost/fooApp/foo
public class FooController {
	
	@Autowired
	private FooRepository fooRepository; //automatically injects a proxied object implementation of the interface
	
	@RequestMapping(value = "/{id}",method = RequestMethod.GET) //GET Requests http://localhost/fooApp/foo/1
	public @ResponseBody Foo get(@PathVariable Long id) {
		return fooRepository.findOne(id);
	}
	
	@RequestMapping(value = "",method = { RequestMethod.POST, RequestMethod.PUT })
	public @ResponseBody Foo save(@RequestBody Foo foo) {//converts JSON request to a Foo. returns Foo as a JSON response
		return fooRepository.save(foo);
	}
	
	@RequestMapping(value = "",method = { RequestMethod.DELETE })
	public @ResponseBody void delete(@RequestBody @Valid Foo foo) {
		fooRepository.delete(foo);
	}
}

thats it, the complete implementation of a RESTful endpoint (besides the bootstrap configuration of the framework)

then you decide you rather want to persist your Foo's in Mongo

Code: 
@Repository
public interface FooRepository [B]extends MongoRepository[/B](Foo, Long) {
	Foo findByName(String name);
}

this is 1 facet out of 1000's. truely an incredible piece of software
 
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Gnome said:
I really don't get why someone would move to C/C++. I've used it extensively combined with JNI. To the laymen, that means I write an application in C++ for native functionality then write an interface in Java using JNI to make a native -> managed bridge so to speak. C++ really it isn't very complex or special. Just very tedious and lacks so much in power, feels like going back to ASM comparatively.

Programming for sissies, such an entertaining term :p Join one of the large silicon valley companies and work on a distributed app in Java (or MS for .NET). Then come back here and tell us about this sissy language and how you wish you rather could have done it in C++
Click to expand...
Erm, you talk about using Java for what it's intended but then judge C++ under that same umbrella for which it isn't intended. If cross platform is a must then Java is the obvious choice. If not then some of us will find C++ easier to work with and more powerful, even for server apps. Spring is also just an extension to the library. It does not make the language itself more powerful. Java was lucky to have had the popularity in the area it did to make spring a reality. Things could have gone the other way as well with a language such as C++ getting the library. If I want to code a DirectX app for instance C/C++ is the choice because that's where the library support is. Does that make Java inferior then?

Each language has its purpose. Where people incorrectly criticise C++ is where they don't know how to use a feature. You can't blame the hammer for hitting your thumb. It gives the tools which are very powerful and can do what Java can't. That doesn't necessarily mean they must be used. It gives the temptation and then people use them incorrectly but you can't blame the language for that as bugs can occur in Java too. I can use a pointer where appropriate but if I screw up it's my fault because it's usually possible to do it without or in a safe manner.
 
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Lol Java is for sissies WTF? Programming in Java is not for the faint hearted. I program in PHP, CSS and HTML i do not want to touch Java .LOOOOOl:D
 
King_Anon said:
Lol Java is for sissies WTF? Programming in Java is not for the faint hearted. I program in PHP, CSS and HTML i do not want to touch Java .LOOOOOl:D
Click to expand...
Interesting - in another thread you were asking us to code your website in CSS for you...
 
Been learning a bit of Java recently (Along with a couple of other languages to find which one I prefer). I actually like it the most. Nice clean code and very object orientated.
 
Ancalagon said:
The only language worth insulting is Visual Basic. Everything else has its place.
Click to expand...

The software developed by NASA includes a large number of programs written in VB :)
 
Here is an opinion from a techie that can't code for shyte.

Wherever there is java, there are moaning users. Its either slow, buggy or both. Then there is also the compatibility, stuff breaking with updates and the security risks if you don't update. Either java is horrible or all the developers are incompetent(unlikely).

It's a mess from an IT service delivery perspective where user experience and feedback determine your bonus.. Developers are shielded from all that so I can understand why it is so popular.
 
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