Is the ANC splitting?

Well, 40% of the cabinet is gone. I HOPE they do form a group AND HOPEFULLY with the DA as they are the next strongest....

Q: Why does SA vote by party and not by candidate? Was it always like this?
 
boramk said:
Well, 40% of the cabinet is gone. I HOPE they do form a group AND HOPEFULLY with the DA as they are the next strongest....

Q: Why does SA vote by party and not by candidate? Was it always like this?
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Which country votes by candidate?
 
Skinner said:
Under normal situations, yes, there is little hope for SA.
But now, the ANC is weak, there is division amongst its upper ranks and actions are resulting as an effect. Now is the time for opposition parties to kick in. I would expect they could start by making a strong-worded media statement, criticizing the current f-up, calling on all South Africans to join the fight against the ANC. This I expect within the next 24h. Then, as part of a longer-term campaign, they should start a massive project to find and reach out to each South African possible, even the ones in the remote corners of the country, and educate them about (1) the current situation with the ANC and the f'ed-up country and (2) the benefits of voting for a new(?), stronger opposition party. And BAM! You have a new party at the lead of the country by 2010. Then one thing after the other follows... all problems addressed... and by 2015 our children can play safely outside, we can all take public transport to work and all problems sorted out - just like a 1st world country. Sounds like a dream yes but NOW is the time to act and it can become reality!!!
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You know I would agree with you but the problem is that black people, especially the poor simply don't trust Helen Zille to deliver them from evil. The big problem the DA has is that it talks down to people and come across as whiners although it should be said that they have improved slightly under Zille's leadership.

The problem is simply that there aren't alternatives to the ANC when the DA looks and sounds like US Republicans in drag. It might get them votes in the Western Cape but nationally (black) people will never vote for them en masse.
 
Zuma faces ANC rebellion

ANC president Jacob Zuma will spend the months ahead engaging ANC provincial structures in an attempt to head off what seems to be an internal rebellion in the party, as more ANC members call for an alternative political home.

With only months to go before elections, serious cracks have emerged in the ANC. The axing of Thabo Mbeki has strengthened these centrifugal forces.

A growing number of ANC members, mostly Mbeki supporters, want to join a new political party that disgruntled ANC leaders are planning.

Zuma’s first visit will be to the Eastern Cape, a traditional support base of Mbeki, where marginalised ANC members are being sold the idea of an alternative ANC.

Although there has been no formal announcement, the Mail & Guardian understands plans by some ANC leaders to launch a new party are at an advanced stage. This was confirmed by more than eight ANC leaders close to the talks.

Preliminary meetings about the new party idea are understood to have taken place in several provinces.

The M&G has learned that at the first exploratory meeting some leaders proposed to name the new party the African National Congress of South Africa, while others suggested it should be called the United Democratic Front and use a logo similar to that of the ANC.

Studies to gauge potential support have been conducted, mainly concerning government activities, and have included surveys of service delivery under Mbeki’s leadership.

The plan is for senior government figures who performed well under Mbeki to be the party’s new faces.

“There’s no doubt ordinary South Africans accept the current government leadership,” said a top state official privy to the talks. “ANC members hold a different view. But with acceptance in communities, we believe the new party could contest the next elections with a high degree of success.”

Many in Zuma’s camp suspect that those behind the initiative include Limpopo Premier Sello Moloto, Gauteng Premier Mbhazima Shilowa, former deputy defence minister Mluleki George and former Ekhuruleni mayor Duma Nkosi. All deny the reports and say they have not attended any secret meeting at which the new party was discussed.

Said a senior ANC leader in Limpopo: “The ground for a new party has been laid. The talks have been there for a long time. The meetings are still exclusive, but an announcement will be made in few weeks’ time. Another meeting is scheduled to take place again this weekend in Gauteng.

“The consensus is that there is a need for a new party, but that itmust not be seen as an Mbeki thing -- this might be interpreted as him clinging to power.

“There’s also a slight fear that this will be interpreted by Zuma supporters as another Mbeki effort to stop Zuma taking over as president,” the Limpopo leader said.

An ANC source said many senior leaders did not want to go public with their support for the new party at this stage because they were afraid of being vilified as “sell-outs”. One provincial premier raised fears that the launch of the new party could ignite violence.

Some ANC insiders claimed Mbeki was also involved in the initiative but would not be its face.

Mbeki supporters launched a website called Friends of Democracy this week. According to a senior government official close to Mbeki, it will be a platform for Mbeki supporters who believe political space has been closed by the new ANC leadership.

The website, the owners of which are unnamed, carries comments sympathetic to Mbeki -- a hostile contributor wrote that it should be renamed “Friends of Thabo Mbeki”.

The official said the launch of the website signalled the frustration of Mbeki supporters and the fight-back strategy involving the formation of the new party.

“Work has begun. We’re moving with speed. We need reassurance [from the Mbeki supporters].”

Other leaders suspected of being conveners of the new party include former minister in the presidency Essop Pahad, former intelligence minister Ronnie Kasrils, businessman Saki Macozoma and former education minister Kader Asmal. They also pleaded ignorance.

In recent months Asmal has held a number of meetings with leading NGO figures, activists, lawyers and business people in the Western Cape to discuss a civil society coalition in defence of the Constitution.

The meetings in July were provoked in part by the furore surrounding ANC attacks on the Constitutional Court and the Judge John Hlophe affair.

The gatherings were kept secret because of concerns that they would be represented as the germ of a new political party.

At one meeting some of those present argued that voters who would ordinarily vote for the ANC should spoil their ballots to deny the party a two-thirds majority that it could use to push through constitutional changes.

Asmal is ill and not actively involved in the initiative at present.

A public meeting of the coalition was held a fortnight ago, when it was presented as an organisation to campaign for the defence of the Constitution.

However, many members believe it should put a clear voting strategy to the electorate, insiders said.
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http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-09-26-zuma-faces-anc-rebellion

Pro-Mbeki site "Friends of Democracy"
 
brixton tower said:
You know I would agree with you but the problem is that black people, especially the poor simply don't trust Helen Zille to deliver them from evil. The big problem the DA has is that it talks down to people and come across as whiners although it should be said that they have improved slightly under Zille's leadership.

The problem is simply that there aren't alternatives to the ANC when the DA looks and sounds like US Republicans in drag. It might get them votes in the Western Cape but nationally (black) people will never vote for them en masse.
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+2. A miracle of ancient Egypt magnitude will not get DA in power. The only chance opposition parties in SA have is unite and conquer, pity they're all looking to rule the world but cannot see past their shields.

I think a split party from ANC might be a good move and may even provide some serious opposition.
 
Krypto said:
+2. A miracle of ancient Egypt magnitude will not get DA in power. The only chance opposition parties in SA have is unite and conquer, pity they're all looking to rule the world but cannot see past their shields.

I think a split party from ANC might be a good move and may even provide some serious opposition.
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I agree entirely, hopefully there is a new party and the DA merge with them. This will be the only democratic way. Africa needs a black leader, but the true demographic needs to be represented equal and fair (Without conflict).
 
Would be great for democracy if the split happens, me thinks. Incidently, was listening to the radio this morning, where the results of a poll (cant remember which co. did the survey) showed a 60% dissatisfaction amongst SA citizens with the recall of Thabo - I get the sense that should the split happen, it could really develop into a strong opposition (if they join forces with the DA, ID, IFP and other minorities, we may even see a new party leading...but that would just be wishful thinking ;))
 
Ref to relevant post on other thread:

Careful what you wish for.

A fractured political landscape can plunge the country into disaster. In this transitional phase (maybe 20-40 years?) we need stable politics and strong leadership.

If our political landscape were to balkanise along tribal/racial/class/regional lines the central political and civil institutions could weaken and whither, leading to endless warfare between the groups, with no-one having the chance to ever win and rule. Endless war and strife ensues.

Yes we can do with a smaller ANC majority and a larger more effective opposition. Much as I dislike it, the glue that holds the ANC together also holds much of the country together. We have loyalties that transcend class, culture and race - and in the absence of other better transcendant values, this might be the best we have until our democracy matures...
 
boramk said:
USA is one... You can argue the candidates belong to a party but the emphasis is on their individual policies etc.
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That’s hardly true. If it were you would at least have an independent winning a presidential election at some point instead of having streams of Democrat and Republican presidents.
 
Not quite ... just remember that their is some rather fierce competition within the parties to decide who the representing candidate will be - remember Clinton vs Obama?

If we had a similar system, and Zuma had to go up against Mothlanthe, I wonder who would end up walking away as the ANC candidate. So in the US at least its not a case of party president automatically becoming the candidate.

Actually, now that I think about it, do they have party leaders in the same sense that we do?
 
shadowfox said:
Not quite ... just remember that their is some rather fierce competition within the parties to decide who the representing candidate will be - remember Clinton vs Obama?

If we had a similar system, and Zuma had to go up against Mothlanthe, I wonder who would end up walking away as the ANC candidate. So in the US at least its not a case of party president automatically becoming the candidate.

Actually, now that I think about it, do they have party leaders in the same sense that we do?
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American political parties are more loosely organized at national level compared to ours. The party that controls the White House gets a national leader so to speak but that does not apply to other parties.
I think at national level they are controlled by committees made up of state representatives.
 
JungleBoy said:
American political parties are more loosely organized at national level compared to ours. The party that controls the White House gets a national leader so to speak but that does not apply to other parties.
I think at national level they are controlled by committees made up of state representatives.
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Spot on, american political parties have virtually no central chain of command.
 
What's more interesting is that once a candidate is elected to office, they can switch parties or even become independent.

If we had a similar setup here then Mbeki could remain the country's president by simply quiting the ANC or changing parties.
 
The ANC quite frankly didn't have the power to remove Mbeki from office - the only way to remove an incumbent from office is via a vote of no confidence in Parliament.

They couldve tried recalling him until they were blue in the face - until he decided to resign himself the only ability they really had was to make a noise and fuss.
 
shadowfox said:
If we had a similar system, and Zuma had to go up against Mothlanthe, I wonder who would end up walking away as the ANC candidate.
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Zuma would still win IMO. If Mothlanthe had even a hairs width of a chance to be ANC president he wouldn't have been such an "unknown" to the media and non ANC supporters in general.
 
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