Is Tim Noakes running a Ponzi scheme?

The comments section is the best. The best part is the writer predicted the reaction in the article.
 
manu55 said:
I think it has to do with the cult like status, and belief in the leader (aka Tim Noakes) as being the all supreme... hahaha
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This is a charge that I regularly hear, but as someone who happens to be doing a LCHF diet, an unfounded one. Noakes is certainly doing a good job of spreading the issue, given his status and credentials, but myself and anyone else I know who is trying it - We are convinced not by some sort of Noakesian mysticism but by a fairly significant body of evidence, coupled with the general positive effects the diet is having on our well-being.

That the bulk of the criticism (at least in the context of South African dialogue on the matter) is aimed at a personality and his perceived cult, says volumes about the strength of the argument, as well as the character of those who make it.
 
copacetic said:
This is a charge that I regularly hear, but as someone who happens to be doing a LCHF diet, an unfounded one. Noakes is certainly doing a good job of spreading the issue, given his status and credentials, but myself and anyone else I know who is trying it - We are convinced not by some sort of Noakesian mysticism but by a fairly significant body of evidence, coupled with the general positive effects the diet is having on our well-being.

That the bulk of the criticism (at least in the context of South African dialogue on the matter) is aimed at a personality and his perceived cult, says volumes about the strength of the argument, as well as the character of those who make it.
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I think part of the problem is how much of the public discourse is commanded with things like that it's the 'Noakes Diet'. It might not be accurate (as the diet exists entirely without him), but that's public discourse for you.

I've had unfortunate experiences with a number of Noakes-cultists, though.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
I think part of the problem is how much of the public discourse is commanded with things like that it's the 'Noakes Diet'. It might not be accurate (as the diet exists entirely without him), but that's public discourse for you.

I've had unfortunate experiences with a number of Noakes-cultists, though.
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Anyone using figureheads to dictate their positions and behaviour, are not much worth engaging with, if at all, in my opinion.
 
copacetic said:
This is a charge that I regularly hear, but as someone who happens to be doing a LCHF diet, an unfounded one. Noakes is certainly doing a good job of spreading the issue, given his status and credentials, but myself and anyone else I know who is trying it - We are convinced not by some sort of Noakesian mysticism but by a fairly significant body of evidence, coupled with the general positive effects the diet is having on our well-being.

That the bulk of the criticism (at least in the context of South African dialogue on the matter) is aimed at a personality and his perceived cult, says volumes about the strength of the argument, as well as the character of those who make it.
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I was paraphrasing the article. And by fairly significant body of evidence do you mean the research of one person? Also, how narcissistic does a person have to be to name a diet after them-self? Is it not a Catch-22? You could argue that 'it's the work of many', then surely it should be called the LCHF diet, or by some other name? What about the input of the others? The name "Tim Noakes Diet" implies that it's mainly the research of one person, which, in the scientific community, does not prove anything. It needs to be confirmed or denied by the research of many people.

As opposed to you "well-being", why not google the long list of doctors and cardiologists who stand FIRMLY opposed to Tim Noakes, who by the way, has a doctorate in science, but is not a practicing medical doctor.

That's why people are skeptical of this fad. Surely there has not been enough research done to quantify the positives and negatives of the work of a single person?

No need to get so defensive. You merely contribute to bad name the Banters already have.
 
This has nothing to do with how a ponzi scheme operates. It's a very specific kind of pyramid investment scheme:
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator.
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What the writer describes is a collective, cult-like frenzied delusion.

Also, how narcissistic does a person have to be to name a diet after them-self?
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If they contrived the fundamental principles of the diet, it seems reasonable.
 
manu55 said:
I was paraphrasing the article. And by fairly significant body of evidence do you mean the research of one person? Also, how narcissistic does a person have to be to name a diet after them-self? Is it not a Catch-22? You could argue that 'it's the work of many', then surely it should be called the LCHF diet, or by some other name? What about the input of the others? The name "Tim Noakes Diet" implies that it's mainly the research of one person, which, in the scientific community, does not prove anything. It needs to be confirmed or denied by the research of many people.

As opposed to you "well-being", why not google the long list of doctors and cardiologists who stand FIRMLY opposed to Tim Noakes, who by the way, has a doctorate in science, but is not a practicing medical doctor.

That's why people are skeptical of this fad. Surely there has not been enough research done to quantify the positives and negatives of the work of a single person?

No need to get so defensive. You merely contribute to bad name the Banters already have.
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Tim Noakes calls his diet the Banting diet. The media calls it the Noakes diet.

As mentioned early, the diet exists (and has for a long time) without Noakes at all.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/
 
copacetic said:
Anyone using figureheads to dictate their positions and behaviour, are not much worth engaging with, if at all, in my opinion.
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Although I simply can't help myself in this instance...

manu55 said:
I was paraphrasing the article.
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Sure, I didn't suggest otherwise did I?

And by fairly significant body of evidence do you mean the research of one person?
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I do not, no.

Also, how narcissistic does a person have to be to name a diet after them-self? Is it not a Catch-22? You could argue that 'it's the work of many', then surely it should be called the LCHF diet, or by some other name? What about the input of the others? The name "Tim Noakes Diet" implies that it's mainly the research of one person, which, in the scientific community, does not prove anything.
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Tim Noakes, as far as I can tell, calls it 'banting' and 'LCHF'. Is there any instance anywhere of Tim Noakes referencing the 'Tim Noakes diet?

It needs to be confirmed or denied by the research of many people.
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I'm certainly not arguing against this, to be sure. Science must science onwards, as it does.

As opposed to you "well-being", why not google the long list of doctors and cardiologists who stand FIRMLY opposed to Tim Noakes, who by the way, has a doctorate in science, but is not a practicing medical doctor.
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I've done a fair amount of research into what I eat, and am more than satisfied that what I am not doing is in any manner dangerous. You seem to think I am entirely basing my behaviour on Tim Noakes, which, as I initially tried to point out to you, is mostly a fantasy invented by his hysterical detractors.

That's why people are skeptical of this fad. Surely there has not been enough research done to quantify the positives and negatives of the work of a single person?
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People are sceptical because they are ignorant, as the above comment illustrates with some clarity.

No need to get so defensive. You merely contribute to bad name the Banters already have.
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Again, if attacking personality is all you can bring to the table...
 
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Wow some people are stupid. If you believe that the Banting diet is the Tim Noakes diet then you are heavily misinformed. Unfortunately as with 99% of the articles written out there on the 'Tim Noakes' diet are also heavily misinformed and lacking actual factual information. You just need to refer to medical research to prove. Ponzi scheme? How the hell is that even possible?

Tim Noakes has never referred to the diet as the Tim Noakes diet. The diet was started by William Banting, hence the Banting diet, Tim Noakes just supports this. This diet has been around for centuries, just look at the Massai Mara tribe, and the Alaskan Inuits.. they have been ketogenic for as long as we can tell.

If you want to call a big movement towards correct nutrition, a cult of sorts then so be it. Ignorant will be ignorant.
 
Pakka said:
Tim Noakes calls his diet the Banting diet. The media calls it the Noakes diet.

As mentioned early, the diet exists (and has for a long time) without Noakes at all.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/
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No, his website calls it The Tim Noakes Diet

"Welcome to The Real Meal Revolution the home of Banting & the Tim Noakes Diet. This site has everything you need to make you a better Banter. Expect to find information on banting, new tips and recipes, listings of shops that sell stuff you need and recommended (and certified) practitioners who can help you with more serious health issues. Have a walk through. Download stuff. Watch a video or just take notes. Let us know what you think or, even better, let your friends know what you think and share us on Twitter, Facebook or anywhere really! Most of all, have a great time!"

http://realmealrevolution.com/the-facts

But here is my favourite part:

"This is it! Officially, the fastest selling cook book in South African history. Written in just four weeks by Prof Tim Noakes, Sally-Ann Creed, Jonno Proudfoot and David Grier, the so called 'Red Bible' has changed the way an entire country eats."

4 Weeks. That's how long it took them to write the book.
 
I have been on the diet for over 2 months now, lost 10kg and feeling better than I have felt in the last 10 years. I trail run, hike, mountain bike and it definitely makes a massive difference, switching from carbs to fat as a fuel source.

Watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkQYZ6FbsmI

If people think there is not enough research to back up this lifestyle change (its not a diet), then they clearly dont know how to use Google or maybe they just dont want to. There is naturally some push back to this from many people because it is such a fundemental change to how we think about food. There is no need to be aggressive against it, but rather embrace it and use it according to how your body reacts to it.
 
manu55 said:
No, his website calls it The Tim Noakes Diet

"Welcome to The Real Meal Revolution the home of Banting & the Tim Noakes Diet. This site has everything you need to make you a better Banter. Expect to find information on banting, new tips and recipes, listings of shops that sell stuff you need and recommended (and certified) practitioners who can help you with more serious health issues. Have a walk through. Download stuff. Watch a video or just take notes. Let us know what you think or, even better, let your friends know what you think and share us on Twitter, Facebook or anywhere really! Most of all, have a great time!"

http://realmealrevolution.com/the-facts

But here is my favourite part:

"This is it! Officially, the fastest selling cook book in South African history. Written in just four weeks by Prof Tim Noakes, Sally-Ann Creed, Jonno Proudfoot and David Grier, the so called 'Red Bible' has changed the way an entire country eats."

4 Weeks. That's how long it took them to write the book.
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Dont be silly, once all facts and information has been obtained it shouldnt take very long to compile into a book. Research on this diet has been happening for 100 years...Dr Phinney has been ketogenic for 10 years and has all the medical evidence to prove it works.

I imagine it says Tim Noakes diet on the webpage to attract hits, but not once has TN ever referred to the banting diet as his diet, it is always banting or LCHF.

What I find extremely funny is that everybody trying to be outspoken about this, is trying to attack a man and are not attacking the 'diet' is he advocating? I guess its just easier to attack the man because you cannot attack the diet.
 
manu55 said:
No, his website calls it The Tim Noakes Diet
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As far as I can see, there's a small text right at the bottom of the page, which references the Tim Noakes diet (and my guess is there's probably some sort of copyright/legal issue at play here).

Everything else in the site, text, blurb, graphics, etc, very clearly reference 'banting'.

So, I think it's a little disingenuous to reach the conclusion that Tim Noakes calls the diet the Tim Noakes diet, when 99% of the time it's referred to, clearly, as banting.
 
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