Is your data safe with Afrihost?

[JonJavelin]

Isn't the below a contradiction (if not misrepresentation)?

In the below screen-print from Afrihost’s website, at the bottom under "The Small Print",Afrihost states:

"Afrihost will manage the server's hardware and software of the solution and ensure that backups are done and that your data is secure.”

But in their terms and conditions they say:

“Backups
Clients are solely responsible for backing up their data and Afrihost strongly encourages ALL Hosting clients to do so as frequently and completely as possible. Afrihost will not be liable for any data loss or any other losses or damages related to backups or data recovery without exception.
Afrihost may, in some instances, offer a separate backup service in conjunction with dedicated hosting, and will make such backups available to clients on request as and when they are available. However, Afrihost does not warrant or guarantee the availability, completeness or “up to date” status of such backups. Clients are still ultimately responsible for their own data, and Afrihost strongly encourages such clients to continue to make their own backups as frequently and completely as possible to ensure that they have recourse in the event of any failure.
Afrihost also cannot guarantee the condition or fitness of any backups provided. Such backups are provided "as is" and are used at the client’s own risk and discretion - whether restored by Afrihost by instruction from clients or by clients themselves. Afrihost will not be liable for any losses or damages relating to any incidents arising out of such backups being provided (or not provided) to clients on request."

Basically what I get from the above is that our data with Afrihost is not safe at all unless you physically go to their data center with a hard drive and physically do a back-up in person!

 

[Solitude]

We had a problem where we asked Afrihost to backup our virtual machines daily. So they told us that everything is set up and backed up.

Months later we get emails telling us that the backups are failing. It took weeks to get it fixed. Basically what happened was that the backups were set up in the beginning and then the person who did this didn't give us the details. Afrihost realised at some stage that there weren't any email addresses linked to the backups and added the email addresses after which we got the error emails.

Basically our machines weren't being backed up since sometime last year! Apparently it was our responsibility to check up on the backups even though the details were never given to us. We were confident that Afrihost was taking care of the backups like we asked them to.

This wasn't the case. So we finally got the login details from them to the backups after which we could fix the problem and have backups again.

So please everyone! Don't assume that Afrihost is making backups. We found this isn't the case and that you have to manage it yourself.

 

[Frikkenator]

I hope, after this and your previous thread, that you are prepared to face the wrath of the resident AfriArmy. Your dedicated server issues will more than likely be blamed on Telkom somehow and on this here thread testimonials of Afrihost doing the most amazing job in the world with backups will spew forth.

Because JonJavelin, in these parts Afrihost can do absolutely no wrong, and they are never to blame.

 

[AfriMan]

Isn't the below a contradiction (if not misrepresentation)?

In the below screen-print from Afrihost’s website, at the bottom under "The Small Print",Afrihost states:

"Afrihost will manage the server's hardware and software of the solution and ensure that backups are done and that your data is secure.”

But in their terms and conditions they say:

“Backups
Clients are solely responsible for backing up their data and Afrihost strongly encourages ALL Hosting clients to do so as frequently and completely as possible. Afrihost will not be liable for any data loss or any other losses or damages related to backups or data recovery without exception.
Afrihost may, in some instances, offer a separate backup service in conjunction with dedicated hosting, and will make such backups available to clients on request as and when they are available. However, Afrihost does not warrant or guarantee the availability, completeness or “up to date” status of such backups. Clients are still ultimately responsible for their own data, and Afrihost strongly encourages such clients to continue to make their own backups as frequently and completely as possible to ensure that they have recourse in the event of any failure.
Afrihost also cannot guarantee the condition or fitness of any backups provided. Such backups are provided "as is" and are used at the client’s own risk and discretion - whether restored by Afrihost by instruction from clients or by clients themselves. Afrihost will not be liable for any losses or damages relating to any incidents arising out of such backups being provided (or not provided) to clients on request."

Basically what I get from the above is that our data with Afrihost is not safe at all unless you physically go to their data center with a hard drive and physically do a back-up in person!
View attachment 110722

I see the conflict here and the correct information is the terms of the website. We've updated the product description.

In the past we've offered backups as a emergency rescue service, but this has proved to be very risky as even backups supplied can be corrupted or out of date, and this essentially opens us up to liability. We've found that best practice from overseas vendors is to indemnify us from any claims relating to data backups, as this is (and always as been) the client's responsibility. We've simply removed any wording that may hint that backups are part of the service we provide.

In general though, it is always better for clients to be responsible for backups and data redundancy - as the level of complexity and detail required for backups is best managed directly by clients.

 

[AfriMan]

I hope, after this and your previous thread, that you are prepared to face the wrath of the resident AfriArmy. Your dedicated server issues will more than likely be blamed on Telkom somehow and on this here thread testimonials of Afrihost doing the most amazing job in the world with backups will spew forth.

Because JonJavelin, in these parts Afrihost can do absolutely no wrong, and they are never to blame.

Not sure what we did to make you hate us so

Seriously though, is there something unresolved that you would like us to look into? For the record, we're not perfect - we make mistakes and we do our best to make them right and own up to them - publicly or privately.

 

[JonJavelin]

So for who knows how long you have advertised your dedicated servers as "Afrihost will manage the server's hardware and software of the solution and ensure that backups are done and that your data is secure.” (as the "small print") whilst completely indemnifying yourself through your T&C's placed elsewhere on your site and your fix is to quickly change the wording?

Your solution to back-ups is just as laughable. You will provide the service, get paid for it but you will not take any responsibility for the service you provide? Looking through all your T&C's this seems to be a general trend - you are happy to provide several services and charge for it but you completely indemnify yourself should anything go wrong. I wonder how well this will hold if tested through legal remedies or regulatory bodies available.

So if the OS or hardware fails or RAID drives don't hold up (my understanding is that 99% of customers hold back-ups on the same server because of the RAID drives), your back-ups do not hold up (given the below paragraph on back-ups in your T&C's), how are customers supposed to practically keep back-ups? Running back-ups externally will probably require another dedicated line and hardware, more bandwidth or do we physically need to send someone to your data-center to do back-ups?

I see the conflict here and the correct information is the terms of the website. We've updated the product description.

In the past we've offered backups as a emergency rescue service, but this has proved to be very risky as even backups supplied can be corrupted or out of date, and this essentially opens us up to liability. We've found that best practice from overseas vendors is to indemnify us from any claims relating to data backups, as this is (and always as been) the client's responsibility. We've simply removed any wording that may hint that backups are part of the service we provide.

In general though, it is always better for clients to be responsible for backups and data redundancy - as the level of complexity and detail required for backups is best managed directly by clients.

 

[Frikkenator]

Not sure what we did to make you hate us so

Seriously though, is there something unresolved that you would like us to look into? For the record, we're not perfect - we make mistakes and we do our best to make them right and own up to them - publicly or privately.

Actually my issue is not with you guys at all, I've even got a couple of domains hosted by you, you'll also notice I never said anything bad about you.

My issue is the mob mentality of forum users and the cycle of ISP loving/hating on the forum. Currently you are the blue eyed boys of the ISP world as far as this forum is concerned, and after the 100th thread complaining of bad service and the poster's being told how amazing you are an how it it always Telkom at fault it gets a bit much.

Couple of years ago MWEB was in your shoes, everyone on here absolutely adored them after they launched uncapped.
After that OpenWeb took the throne for a year or two, and you were hated after weeks of ADSL downtime.
Now it is Afrihost who can do no wrong, and MWEB is a company started by satan while out drinking one night with sole purpose of torturing people.

I don't envy you, when it comes to ISPs people have extremely short memories and your time will come to be loathed by the majority of the people here. But having an army of fanboys/haters is not a good place to be, issues raised need to be addressed instead of answered with a "I've always had excellent service so it must be your fault", and praise must be given where it's due even if it's not the ISP flavour of the week.

From what I gather lately your support has gone for an absolute ball of ****, and I get that it is because of your phenomenal growth, but instead of acknowledging it most people here just discard it and the guy is never helped to resolve his issue. And that is where my problem lies.

 

[AfriMan]

So for who knows how long you have advertised your dedicated servers as "Afrihost will manage the server's hardware and software of the solution and ensure that backups are done and that your data is secure.” (as the "small print") whilst completely indemnifying yourself through your T&C's placed elsewhere on your site and your fix is to quickly change the wording?

Your solution to back-ups is just as laughable. You will provide the service, get paid for it but you will not take any responsibility for the service you provide? Looking through all your T&C's this seems to be a general trend - you are happy to provide several services and charge for it but you completely indemnify yourself should anything go wrong. I wonder how well this will hold if tested through legal remedies or regulatory bodies available.

So if the OS or hardware fails or RAID drives don't hold up (my understanding is that 99% of customers hold back-ups on the same server because of the RAID drives), your back-ups do not hold up (given the below paragraph on back-ups in your T&C's), how are customers supposed to practically keep back-ups? Running back-ups externally will probably require another dedicated line and hardware, more bandwidth or do we physically need to send someone to your data-center to do back-ups?

The change in policy was only made very recently and we are still reviewing applicable terms to be more exhaustive. I think it's not that we don't want to help clients in every way possible - but we open up ourselves to liability that is impossible to manage. I personally dealt with a client who broke his website, and then demanded we restore a backup. When we did manage to restore a backup (which was not a paid or provided service) he then claimed the backup was before a major re-design and demanded that we pay for the dev time involved. It's cases like these where we feel there is too much risk to create the expectation that clients don't need to safeguard their data. With the cost of hosting these days, it's very affordable to have a second server or environment to mirror to a completely separate drive or virtual environment - which is also best practice for redundancy. As far as I know, this is standard in other hosting companies overseas where they've obviously come across these kinds of issues.

We'll always try to help where we can and do what is possible with the resources and information we have, but the message we're trying to get across is that clients must take responsibility for their data. You're always welcome to chat to your Account manager about what options are available, and how you can achieve this effectively and affordably.

 

[AfriMan]

Actually my issue is not with you guys at all, I've even got a couple of domains hosted by you, you'll also notice I never said anything bad about you.

My issue is the mob mentality of forum users and the cycle of ISP loving/hating on the forum. Currently you are the blue eyed boys of the ISP world as far as this forum is concerned, and after the 100th thread complaining of bad service and the poster's being told how amazing you are an how it it always Telkom at fault it gets a bit much.

Couple of years ago MWEB was in your shoes, everyone on here absolutely adored them after they launched uncapped.
After that OpenWeb took the throne for a year or two, and you were hated after weeks of ADSL downtime.
Now it is Afrihost who can do no wrong, and MWEB is a company started by satan while out drinking one night with sole purpose of torturing people.

I don't envy you, when it comes to ISPs people have extremely short memories and your time will come to be loathed by the majority of the people here. But having an army of fanboys/haters is not a good place to be, issues raised need to be addressed instead of answered with a "I've always had excellent service so it must be your fault", and praise must be given where it's due even if it's not the ISP flavour of the week.

From what I gather lately your support has gone for an absolute ball of ****, and I get that it is because of your phenomenal growth, but instead of acknowledging it most people here just discard it and the guy is never helped to resolve his issue. And that is where my problem lies.

I hope that we (or I) don't come off as arrogant in the posts I make. That's not the case. I know that everything that's happened up to now is a direct result of our client's good faith, and I promise that this is always on the top of our minds.

We've made some big strides in improving our client service by adding more than double the number of support staff and also re-focussing our efforts to consolidate our internal and ClientZone systems to give clients more control and freedom over their products.

We definitely want to help every single client to the best of our ability. And if a client has a request that we an reasonably action, then we do our best to do this for them.

 

[SilverNodashi]

So if the OS or hardware fails or RAID drives don't hold up (my understanding is that 99% of customers hold back-ups on the same server because of the RAID drives), your back-ups do not hold up (given the below paragraph on back-ups in your T&C's), how are customers supposed to practically keep back-ups? Running back-ups externally will probably require another dedicated line and hardware, more bandwidth or do we physically need to send someone to your data-center to do back-ups?

I'm not siding with anyone here but want to make a general suggestion.

A a business owner (looking at how much money you've lost, I guess this is from a business point of view), you should always take first responsibility for your data. Whether it's stored on this ISP's servers, or that ISP's servers, or your own servers.
Backups fail. Even on the most expensive equipment, backups fail. You should make it your prerogative to make sure you have backups, somewhere. Try and have two copies of backups, in case the backup device which you rely on fails. And, at some stage it will fail.

RAID is by no means a backup solution and should NEVER be used as such, or relied on as a fail-safe. No matter who manages the server, you, Afrihost or any other ISP. It helps, a bit, to have less downtime on your server, but even your RAID set will fail at some stage.

In this case, you have an un-managed server. This ISP, like most others, have a managed solution as well. You chose the cheaper option, and you should have made the decision knowing there are limits. More expensive options generally ensure better backups (in this scenario) and should be considered if you don't know how to a) manage the server yourself, b) take additional backups, or c) you don't fully understand the limits implied.


Most server admins know that offsite backups are very important and in this case you could either get another server elsewhere and backup the data to that server, or ask them if they'll allow you to send a HDD to them once a week / once a month to have your data backed up. They may, or may not like / support this idea, but you won't know if you haven't tried.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

I'm not siding with anyone here but want to make a general suggestion.

A a business owner (looking at how much money you've lost, I guess this is from a business point of view), you should always take first responsibility for your data. Whether it's stored on this ISP's servers, or that ISP's servers, or your own servers.
Backups fail. Even on the most expensive equipment, backups fail. You should make it your prerogative to make sure you have backups, somewhere. Try and have two copies of backups, in case the backup device which you rely on fails. And, at some stage it will fail.

RAID is by no means a backup solution and should NEVER be used as such, or relied on as a fail-safe. No matter who manages the server, you, Afrihost or any other ISP. It helps, a bit, to have less downtime on your server, but even your RAID set will fail at some stage.

In this case, you have an un-managed server. This ISP, like most others, have a managed solution as well. You chose the cheaper option, and you should have made the decision knowing there are limits. More expensive options generally ensure better backups (in this scenario) and should be considered if you don't know how to a) manage the server yourself, b) take additional backups, or c) you don't fully understand the limits implied.


Most server admins know that offsite backups are very important and in this case you could either get another server elsewhere and backup the data to that server, or ask them if they'll allow you to send a HDD to them once a week / once a month to have your data backed up. They may, or may not like / support this idea, but you won't know if you haven't tried.

^this
ISP's aside, if a system is mission critical then be prepared to pay for management/maintenance of it.
Im not saying its the case now but most companies dont want to pay for the required management of systems until it is too late and some poor sod has to try and pick up the pieces.