ISP frustration

[HartsockZA]

I think OP's doing something scaly, generally speaking, you're getting the right support it's only textbook that we fault find where you're losing packets. Take up Websquads offer on the Mikrotik they will be able to login and check what's happening to your packets from ISP to you and back again. Most of the time we do provide free-to-use routers to help investigate causes and for new clients so that's normal. Also, Mikrotiks are very powerful routers on their own so one can't doubt a hardware fault, this way they can rule out any equipment errors cause from a Mikrotik we can test a variety of issues.

 

[websquadza]

I have similar issues with WebSquad and battling with IPTV and even Showmax lately, connection with intermittent packet loss to EU and US. According to @websquadza they say my line is fine but I am not getting the speed I am paying for as well as connection issued mentioned above.

I've managed to track down your ticket of today submitted at 18:08 - not seeing anyone saying your line is fine on this ticket?

 

[nelis]

I think OP's doing something scaly, generally speaking, you're getting the right support it's only textbook that we fault find where you're losing packets. Take up Websquads offer on the Mikrotik they will be able to login and check what's happening to your packets from ISP to you and back again. Most of the time we do provide free-to-use routers to help investigate causes and for new clients so that's normal. Also, Mikrotiks are very powerful routers on their own so one can't doubt a hardware fault, this way they can rule out any equipment errors cause from a Mikrotik we can test a variety of issues.

Yes but over amonth and then coming with flase information like asus routers do give packet loss. I'm laso taking up the offer for the mikrotik router to have a test.

As per our chat with OP, we're not blaming his router or PC - we asked that every part of the chain be investigated, which OP refuses to do. The issue here is quite simple and the facts are being mis-represented by OP to a large extent:
1. OP complained about Gaming "LAG"
2. It was established LAG exists for him including significant rubber banding in game, even though his PC reports 0-0.008% loss. For local games, this should be insignificant. This kind of rubber banding is usually the result of packet processing issues, not a ISP issue.
3. We've actively engaged OP in a 11 page private chat, running various tests, and getting results that point to packet processing issues (packet out of order - though this should not be a major issue seeing as games are UDP). Ironically these PCAP results are obtained from OP's router. No PCAP results are possible without the router as these interfere with gameplay. So yes, we have reason to want to test another router, even if the client connected directly to the ONT. Router network stacks and windows PC network stacks are very different.
4. We have not once "blamed" OP's router or PC. The fact is, OP is the only user on our network experiencing this issue. We hand over to Openserve at an NNI, and multiple other FNOs in a similar manner. Our network won't "LAG" one user and leave everyone else alone. So at this point, while we go through the motion of eliminating everything, SOP would be to also investigate the client's local hardware - especially if the issue is specific to OP.
5. We provided OP with credentials for two other ISPs, the issue, according to him, existed on those ISP networks too
6. OP obtained credentials for two other ISPs, according to OP those were clear - so that's 3 ISPs with the issue, 3 ISPs without.
7. It's. clear there's something weird going on, we have been engaging Openserve for more feedback, which is slow and not really forthcoming. Openserve's Centurion network is known to have odd niggles.
8. OP's issue is fairly unique. We've given OP the opportunity to try a test router which will 1) give us more insight into his line from his side (at the moment we're blind to his side of the line) and 2) just assist further with our investigation.

Ok ok. Just send me the mikrotik router and get it done with. heck I expect it to be by me Monday. Heck even send a tech out to have a look and I can show him what is wrong. we have been through this for a month and I can promise you not making stuff up.

I don't even understand why I'm still arguing. I should've moved to another isp long ago. and avoid having to come here make a post about this and get on with my life. I'm sure there are plenty other isp's that will be glad to have me as a client and will simply just work and I won't have lag.

If anyone here want me to provide with any info and I mean any info that can help me proof or anything that can help me resolve the issue please let me know will be glad to share info.

 

[r00igev@@r]

Is the PPPoE server a tik? My personal opinion is that there is a difference between the tile vs x86 ones. On Openserve I see latency spikes on the PPPOE server when its a tik

Would be great to benchmark against a high performance linux x86 box.

 

[nelis]

Is the PPPoE server a tik? My personal opinion is that there is a difference between the tile vs x86 ones. On Openserve I see latency spikes on the PPPOE server when its a tik

Would be great to benchmark against a high performance linux x86 box.

please explain what you just said. The problem is I get lag in games so difficult to test as anti cheat normally doesn't work on linux due to game not offically supporting linux

 

[nelis]

Our work internet is also going via Websquad and we using a dedicated firewall box but websquad did provide us with a tenda router so just going to change PPOE detial for that router to test tonight and see if that is also a problem then websquad need to prive me with a new router.

 

[websquadza]

Is the PPPoE server a tik? My personal opinion is that there is a difference between the tile vs x86 ones. On Openserve I see latency spikes on the PPPOE server when its a tik

Would be great to benchmark against a high performance linux x86 box.

Openserve terminate PPPOE on their BNGs (Cisco boxes I believe). With LNS, they pass on a L2TP connection to the ISP. With OBC (the old IPC model), they just pass on traffic. So there's no way to get visibility into Openserve's side. OP tested our OBC realm, which completely bypasses our BNGs and routes straight to our core, and says the issue was still present.

 

[nelis]

Openserve terminate PPPOE on their BNGs (Cisco boxes I believe). With LNS, they pass on a L2TP connection to the ISP. With OBC (the old IPC model), they just pass on traffic. So there's no way to get visibility into Openserve's side. OP tested our OBC realm, which completely bypasses our BNGs and routes straight to our core, and says the issue was still present.

then explain why I don't see the same lag with 3 different isp accounts. And while I already bypassed my router. you still saying ASUS routers causing packet loss when I have the exact same issue connected directly to the ont.

Don't come with it's complicated or any of that cause it's simple. The asus router is no longer a factor cause it's physically not part of network when testing via ont. If it was my pc any isp will give issues and don't come with the network stack bull crap

 

[websquadza]

then explain why I don't see the same lag with 3 different isp accounts. And while I already bypassed my router. you still saying ASUS routers causing packet loss when I have the exact same issue connected directly to the ont.

Don't come with it's complicated or any of that cause it's simple. The asus router is no longer a factor cause it's physically not part of network when testing via ont. If it was my pc any isp will give issues and don't come with the network stack bull crap

Just a reminder, a fact you choose to ignore - the issue existed on two other ISPs accounts too.

Once again, the PC network stack is literally the only constant here. And as per my previous post, we have 0 visibility on your side of the line. Hence us sending a Mikrotik device we can actually log into and run diagnostics from. No one is blaming your devices. We just have zero visibility. The only PCAP tests we have - from your router.

As per my PM, we are arranging for someone to come out. Availability depending, that may be tomorrow.

 

[HartsockZA]

You know what, Op I think you should move. the way you're carrying on MyBB regarding this specific issue that's affecting just you, not seen nor heard anyone that uses Web Squad or any other ISP complain about the spikes you seem to be having especially on Warzone. So if you have had 10 plus years of experience in networking you'd then know that we need to know and see what exactly you are seeing we need an exact tree of how you are receiving and sending packets in order for us as Engineers to identify what on earth is going on with your connection. I've seen some really wacky setups and problems arise from routing errors that aren't textbook scenarios.

You've been having the issue since the start of July 2023 (According to your MyBB posts) and clearly to you this problem isn't replicated on other ISP routes which to me sounds great cause if every ISP ran the same network we'd all be in K@K So the next question is why aren't you moving? I've seen posts like yours naming shaming and being an internet Karen but since the writing is so clearly on the wall why not move? Web Squad in my opinion has done everything textbook and what you're expecting "a quick fix" just isn't going to work here, everyone that's on MyBB works together to resolve the issue, and there are quite a few hardcore network engineers on here that can like me see the writing on the wall. Move your line to Afrihost and go that route, stop posting duplicated posts on here cause you just making the problem even worse.
No OP Fiber isn't like Copper fiber is more complicated and yes there are lots of times when @@@ goes south and you sit there and forgot to turn off a VPN to a specific route or the dog chewed something or the cat farted on your PC GPU.

 

[DapperDanMan]

Nelis said:

please explain what you just said.

Nelis also said:

tot est as anti

Nelis has some explaining of his own to do here ....

 

[nelis]

Nelis said:



Nelis also said:



Nelis has some explaining of his own to do here ....

Wow dude. Grammer police. Anti cheat is blocking wireshark. Ricochet anti cheat is blocking wireshark.

 

[nelis]

You know what, Op I think you should move. the way you're carrying on MyBB regarding this specific issue that's affecting just you, not seen nor heard anyone that uses Web Squad or any other ISP complain about the spikes you seem to be having especially on Warzone. So if you have had 10 plus years of experience in networking you'd then know that we need to know and see what exactly you are seeing we need an exact tree of how you are receiving and sending packets in order for us as Engineers to identify what on earth is going on with your connection. I've seen some really wacky setups and problems arise from routing errors that aren't textbook scenarios.

You've been having the issue since the start of July 2023 (According to your MyBB posts) and clearly to you this problem isn't replicated on other ISP routes which to me sounds great cause if every ISP ran the same network we'd all be in K@K So the next question is why aren't you moving? I've seen posts like yours naming shaming and being an internet Karen but since the writing is so clearly on the wall why not move? Web Squad in my opinion has done everything textbook and what you're expecting "a quick fix" just isn't going to work here, everyone that's on MyBB works together to resolve the issue, and there are quite a few hardcore network engineers on here that can like me see the writing on the wall. Move your line to Afrihost and go that route, stop posting duplicated posts on here cause you just making the problem even worse.
No OP Fiber isn't like Copper fiber is more complicated and yes there are lots of times when @@@ goes south and you sit there and forgot to turn off a VPN to a specific route or the dog chewed something or the cat farted on your PC GPU.

I think you right. they are sending me a mikrotik router to test tomorrow. but that will be the last thing to do. If that doesn't solve it then so be it. Then I'm moving to another isp

Just a reminder, a fact you choose to ignore - the issue existed on two other ISPs accounts too.

Once again, the PC network stack is literally the only constant here. And as per my previous post, we have 0 visibility on your side of the line. Hence us sending a Mikrotik device we can actually log into and run diagnostics from. No one is blaming your devices. We just have zero visibility. The only PCAP tests we have - from your router.

As per my PM, we are arranging for someone to come out. Availability depending, that may be tomorrow.

some of them has been directly from the pc but not when playing games and still had out of order packets mainly on websquad.

From all the isp accounts I've tested websquad is giving me the most issues so far. the other 2 that also giving me kind of issues isn't that bad actually.

 

[Gambit]

I think you right. they are sending me a mikrotik router to test tomorrow. but that will be the last thing to do. If that doesn't solve it then so be it. Then I'm moving to another isp

I don't think the Mikrotik router itself is supposed to fix the issue but rather is going to be used as a diagnostic tool by your ISP to help them try to figure out what might be causing the issue as these routers provide a lot more networking features/tools than the typical Soho routers most people have. You should give them some time with the Mikrotik in place, to look into it. Jumping to another ISP, you might have the same issue and they won't be so accommodating with trying to diagnose the issue. The big ISP's don't really care so much for 1 subscriber and are not willing to put in any effort. Embrace any help they are sending your way.

 

[nelis]

I don't think the Mikrotik router itself is supposed to fix the issue but rather is going to be used as a diagnostic tool by your ISP to help them try to figure out what might be causing the issue as these routers provide a lot more networking features/tools than the typical Soho routers most people have. You should give them some time with the Mikrotik in place, to look into it. Jumping to another ISP, you might have the same issue and they won't be so accommodating with trying to diagnose the issue. The big ISP's don't really care so much for 1 subscriber and are not willing to put in any effort. Embrace any help they are sending your way.

Yes I understand that the mikrotik router is not magically going to solve it but if according to them asus router do give packet loss then it might.

I also know they sending mikrotik to monitor and see what the cause might be so that is why I'm taking the offer. A tech is coming in today to install the router.

 

[Gambit]

I have seen issues in the past where some FNO's have multiple PPPOE Access Concentrators (AC) available to a client and there are issues with one of them. In your case, you might find that when you tested with other ISP's you by chance connected to the good AC but most of the time you connect to a bad one with your primary ISP. With the Mikrotik, your ISP will be able to scan which AC's are available and be able to connect and run tests on each one. If they found an issue, they can then log an issue with the FNO and provide proof as well as also provide info to you on how to force your router to always connect to the good AC.

 

[r00igev@@r]

Openserve terminate PPPOE on their BNGs (Cisco boxes I believe). With LNS, they pass on a L2TP connection to the ISP. With OBC (the old IPC model), they just pass on traffic. So there's no way to get visibility into Openserve's side. OP tested our OBC realm, which completely bypasses our BNGs and routes straight to our core, and says the issue was still present.

If that is the case then it probably old and ancient Openservice Cisco boxes causing the latency. Strange that they haven't swapped yet to Huawei?
So this is what I see on OpenServe:

and then on Vuma:

Top line in graphs is latency and bottom one is jitter.

Vuma is better on the network stats but as far as uptime goes Openserve wins hands down.

Send me an account and I'll graph together, which should confirm that its Openserve.

 

[shadow_man]

Yes but over amonth and then coming with flase information like asus routers do give packet loss. I'm laso taking up the offer for the mikrotik router to have a test.


Ok ok. Just send me the mikrotik router and get it done with. heck I expect it to be by me Monday. Heck even send a tech out to have a look and I can show him what is wrong. we have been through this for a month and I can promise you not making stuff up.

I don't even understand why I'm still arguing. I should've moved to another isp long ago. and avoid having to come here make a post about this and get on with my life. I'm sure there are plenty other isp's that will be glad to have me as a client and will simply just work and I won't have lag.

If anyone here want me to provide with any info and I mean any info that can help me proof or anything that can help me resolve the issue please let me know will be glad to share info.

They should fire you as a customer. IMHO they've gone above and beyond and you're refusing to do your part, then bitching about it.

You aren't worth the money you spend. Especially when you try and deceive and tell a very partial part of the story.

 

[nelis]

They should fire you as a customer. IMHO they've gone above and beyond and you're refusing to do your part, then bitching about it.

You aren't worth the money you spend. Especially when you try and deceive and tell a very partial part of the story.

Ok explain the part where I refuse to do my part. I've done more than enough and willing to do more test.

I've been doing test that websquad has been asking me to do. And now that I'm willing to let them give me a mikrotik router now I'm not doing my part. I've send then many pcap files. Heck I've been doing exactly what they asked from me and now I'm not doing my part, Dude you should rather say nothing cause why are people defending them so much? It's been a month and done so many test and yet I'm the bad guy.

 

[HartsockZA]

They should fire you as a customer. IMHO they've gone above and beyond and you're refusing to do your part, then bitching about it.

You aren't worth the money you spend. Especially when you try and deceive and tell a very partial part of the story.

As soon as Mikrotik is in baby, (insert caption here)