ISPA voices concerns about RICA

RICA legally obliges ISPs to deliver data traffic to the OIC from May 2006, ISPA said.
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What the hell does that mean. Will they now have to report all communications to OIC or will they provide them with the actual data. :eek: This legislation should be scrapped and the OIC dismantled. Anybody have any idea how we can get that done?
"RICA's original crime-fighting objective is laudable but looks certain to be overshadowed by its currently unworkable details.
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It's laughable.
 
Agreed. The RICA act is laughable and unworkable. Any conspiritor worth their salt knows that one uses pgp or some other encryption method for data sent or accessable via the net. Will ISPs have to save all their SPAM and real mail for 6 months or maybe even longer, then of course there will ahve to be backups of that data too :) all at the ISPs cost *ouch*
 
Prometheus said:
What the hell does that mean. Will they now have to report all communications to OIC or will they provide them with the actual data. :eek: This legislation should be scrapped and the OIC dismantled. Anybody have any idea how we can get that done?
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I think the idea is that all data is routed through the KGB, I mean OIC, so they have full powers to spy on South African citizens.
 
Prometheus said:
What the hell does that mean. Will they now have to report all communications to OIC or will they provide them with the actual data.
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RICA doesn't have a general reporting requirement. Your ISP isn't obliged to tell the OIC or any law enforcement agency anything about you unless specifically ordered to do so. But if a retired judge does sign the relevent interception order, then your ISP would be required to send a copy of every packet to or from your IP address to the OIC, without informing you.
 
hi Ant

are you aware of any ISPs that are currently compliant with RICA? or at least able to comply if called upon to do so?

as i recall RICA was signed on 31 December 2002 and there have been ongoing discussions as to the how of its implementation, yet ISPs and TSPs clearly remain in the dark and dissatisfied. Has there been any give from government's side at all?

finally do you know if there is finality as to storage requirements - is it still 5 years?
 
Ant_Brooks said:
RICA doesn't have a general reporting requirement. Your ISP isn't obliged to tell the OIC or any law enforcement agency anything about you unless specifically ordered to do so. But if a retired judge does sign the relevent interception order, then your ISP would be required to send a copy of every packet to or from your IP address to the OIC, without informing you.
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yes by all means monitor my encrypted comminucations! ;) let's see if they can do that,or for that matter know what encryption is.....
 
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Tns said:
yes by all means monitor my encrypted comminucations! ;) let's see if they can do that,or for that matter know what encryption is.....
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Except the law now requires you to provide the encryption key to government when requested or face criminal charges.
 
ps >> RICA can suck my balls :o) maybe we should start selling secure VPN passthroughs to the nigerian 419ers. How else are we going to recover the funds its gonna cost us to get their big brother program off the floor.
 
Skip said:
Except the law now requires you to provide the encryption key to government when requested or face criminal charges.
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it's kinda difficult to track 256bit encrypted transmissions and thats the low end. Give them a copy of my key? lol it's like the clipper chip joke all over :D
 
dominic said:
hi Ant

are you aware of any ISPs that are currently compliant with RICA? or at least able to comply if called upon to do so?

as i recall RICA was signed on 31 December 2002 and there have been ongoing discussions as to the how of its implementation, yet ISPs and TSPs clearly remain in the dark and dissatisfied. Has there been any give from government's side at all?

finally do you know if there is finality as to storage requirements - is it still 5 years?
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From sources I have heard that Telkom is apparently compliant.

Ye, don't ask... :rolleyes:

Re: storage requirements - there are some changes with regards to that where it is just not feasible to capture data for that period of time. Specifically for the large ISP's.
Whenever they issue a judgement, it will be for transgressions or suspect behaviour over a very short recent timeframe, 24-48 hrs.
Only reason why they would require longer than that is for historical purposes, maybe to use as motives, or supporting existing evidence, etc.
 
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Skip said:
Except the law now requires you to provide the encryption key to government when requested or face criminal charges.
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If it's a session key it automatically gets thrown away after the session and you're never even aware that there was a key. Going to be impossible to enforce that. We had a discussion on this already and even the statement that you have to provide them with the key is unclear and under dispute.
Ant_Brooks said:
RICA doesn't have a general reporting requirement. Your ISP isn't obliged to tell the OIC or any law enforcement agency anything about you unless specifically ordered to do so. But if a retired judge does sign the relevent interception order, then your ISP would be required to send a copy of every packet to or from your IP address to the OIC, without informing you.
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It's the retire part that bothers me most. A retired judge won't be held accountable. It should be a judge still on the bench and it should only be in extreme situations, not under the guise of terrorism as usual. As it stand it is a blatant violation of the constitution. Oh yeah I forgot again, there won't be a constitution any more if the ANC is allowed to control it. :eek: :mad:
 
dominic said:
are you aware of any ISPs that are currently compliant with RICA? or at least able to comply if called upon to do so?
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Hi dominic,

I'm not sure if any ISPs can be entirely compliant given that the interception centre doesn't seem to be fully operational yet.

That said, I think most large ISPs now have the equipment in place to comply at least partially with interception orders. But without a functioning interception centre, it is difficult for them to test their compliance.

Small ISPs are a different story -- RICA specifically provides for small ISPs to be granted an exemption from some of the more onerous provisions, but no information has been forthcoming on how someone can apply for an exemption.

dominic said:
as i recall RICA was signed on 31 December 2002 and there have been ongoing discussions as to the how of its implementation, yet ISPs and TSPs clearly remain in the dark and dissatisfied. Has there been any give from government's side at all?
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Yes, during the drafting of the ISP directives there were some supportive folks from government's side (particularly in the Department of Communications) willing to listen. Many changes were made to the ISP directives in response to input from ISPs. (Although definitely not all of the changes ISPs pushed for.) Unfortunately, as the implementation of the Act has proceeded, government has been much less supportive.

Also, some of the more serious problems with RICA will require an amendment to the Act to fix. The folks who have been willing to listen to input on the regulations don't have the seniority get the Act changed. And there doesn't seem to be much willingness from our legislators to change the Act, despite some clear flaws.

(RICA was signed on 22 January 2003 according to this link.)

dominic said:
finally do you know if there is finality as to storage requirements - is it still 5 years?
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The storage requirements for ISPs have not been finalised, because of a lack of suitable international standards to refer to. The current ISP directives only deal with real-time intercept requirements. I'm not sure about the storage requirements for TSPs.
 
thanks Ant - re the last point: I have been half-following the ongoing debate in the EU - it doesn't appear as if there is any real agreement in sight as yet

(per gov.za it was assented to on 30 December 2002 and then published on 22 January 2003 (Gov Notice 122 GG 24286))
 
What is most worrisome is that this was not published in the mainstream media despite being the biggest transgressing against our privacy yet. It just shows us that the only way this ANC controlled government of ours can get anything done is through backhand dealings behind closed doors. But no wait, some people here say we have a real democracy. Show me where the democracy is now please because I can't find it anywhere. This government is 10 times worse than the previous one. I'm glad that people are now starting to realise that and can only find joy in knowing that it will fall flat on its face some day. hehehe
 
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