Israel's war on the Arabic language

[Cray]

Gonna have to ramp it up and build some more Iron Dome Missile Defence systems, which I've seen some people saying are used by Israel to attack ... if you believe that, go reread what the system is called ... particular emphasis on the word Defence

Not arguing about the Iron Dome, but If you believe that the word "defence" means anything when it comes to defence spending then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Look at that more libel against Jews.. wow you must really hate them hey.. Would love to know what your facebook or twitter account looks like - do you also believe that Israel is harvesting arabs organs and using their blood to make matzah?

Have you been to Israel before?

Libel? lol.

Almost Half of Israeli Jews Back Transfer or Expulsion of Arabs

One of the questions in the survey, based on face-to-face interviews of 5,601 individuals, asked to what degree they agreed with the following statement: “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” The result, among the Jewish respondents: Twenty-one percent “strongly agree” and 27 percent “mostly agree.” If those two groups are combined, about half of Israeli Jews questioned – 48 percent – support transfer of Arab citizens.

On the other hand, a similar proportion – 46 percent – say they oppose such a move, with 29 percent saying that they “don’t really agree” and 17 percent responding that they “don’t agree at all” to the expulsion of Arabs.

Among religious Jewish citizens, the percentage who agree to expulsion, according to the poll, is higher than among Jewish Israelis as a whole: Seventy-one percent among the religious community, 69 percent among the ultra-Orthodox and 54 percent of traditional Jews support transfer. In the secular community the trend is the opposite: A majority, 58 percent, oppose expulsion, while more than one-third (37 percent) are in favor.

 

[Xarog]

The signs appear to be in Arabic on almost every street, the equivalent would be showing drug deals taking place outside police stations, in shopping malls, perhaps on the steps of the Capitol or Pentagon.

"Almost every street"?

There were photos of Arabic street signs, sure. When either of us visits Tel Aviv, or gets someone to speak comprehensively about sign-post language stats, then we can talk meaningfully about just how many signs there are.

I really doubt the Israeli Supreme Court would have made a ruling on this without some material cause. And I suspect lawyers might like their talking points, but if they're threatening Tel Aviv with more legal action, I doubt their threats are completely baseless. These are reasonable positions to take, yes?

You haven't commented on the existence of many Arabic street signs in Israel, even in Tel Aviv, as shown by the photos.

Because one street sign does not neccessarily absolve a municipality of negligence.

You don't have a small niggle that the whole situation might be being blown out of proportion by people trying to make political capital from the situation?

I completely accept that this is a possibility.

 

[TheJman]

The Nazis also thought they were defending themselves against the Jews...

Were they right? I don't think so. Do you?

Are you really drawing a correlation between the two? Really??

 

[Xarog]

Look at that more libel against Jews.. wow you must really hate them hey.. Would love to know what your facebook or twitter account looks like - do you also believe that Israel is harvesting arabs organs and using their blood to make matzah?

Have you been to Israel before?

Sorry, are you claiming that Israel's Jewishness is not at the core of its national identity?

Before I reply, I just want to be sure on this point.

 

[TheJman]

lol, you bad people, making all those BDS types look immoral at pushing an agenda that seems to be completely out of proportion to any real world problem. That's just evil

Can't help myself.. must be a nazi like Xrog thinks

 

[Xarog]

Are you really drawing a correlation between the two? Really??

Absolutely.

There's nothing quite like a group of people who believe themselves to be perpetual victims if you want to stir a group of people up into the most gruesome acts of barbarity that history has ever seen.

This particular human reaction needs to be found and countered with reason wherever it raises its head.

 

[TheJman]

Libel? lol.

Almost Half of Israeli Jews Back Transfer or Expulsion of Arabs

Sorry so that article says explosion and whats the word Xrog used? give me a sec while I go find it..

Xrog - given that 48% of Jewish Israelis support the ethnic cleansing of Israeli Arabs

That right there friend is called libel

 

[TheJman]

"Almost every street"?

There were photos of Arabic street signs, sure. When either of us visits Tel Aviv, or gets someone to speak comprehensively about sign-post language stats, then we can talk meaningfully about just how many signs there are.

I really doubt the Israeli Supreme Court would have made a ruling on this without some material cause. And I suspect lawyers might like their talking points, but if they're threatening Tel Aviv with more legal action, I doubt their threats are completely baseless. These are reasonable positions to take, yes?


Because one street sign does not neccessarily absolve a municipality of negligence.


I completely accept that this is a possibility.

But Xrog, over all the debates we've had, that seems to be the overarching problem, your belief that what we say cannot possibly ever be true.. I remember having the same debate about hamas using arabs as human shields and you vehemently saying they don't..

Maybe it's time you took a trip to Israel to see for yourself before you keep trying to say that we are lying and hiding facts? Maybe then you can make an objective call?

 

[Dave]

I completely accept that this is a possibility.

That was the premise of my argument, it's the same feeling I have. Something is wrong, but not at the level some are making it out to be.

 

[Xarog]

That right there friend is called libel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4775861,00.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.[1] The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder and rape.

So to be clear, what do 48% of Israeli Jews support given the results of the poll as described by the Ynet article?

Since when is the truth libel?

 

[TheJman]

Absolutely.

There's nothing quite like a group of people who believe themselves to be perpetual victims if you want to stir a group of people up into the most gruesome acts of barbarity that history has ever seen.

This particular human reaction needs to be found and countered with reason wherever it raises its head.

I hereby lay down the gauntlet and state that until you have actually gone there and seen things for yourself and not rely on the words of news articles which, no matter what side, are written with bias .. that your opinion on these facts is pure guesstimates and assumptions

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Sorry so that article says explosion and whats the word Xrog used? give me a sec while I go find it..



That right there friend is called libel

Where do you read explosion? It's expulsion. And I'm guessing you don't know what 'ethnic cleansing' means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.

That's precisely what that poll shows, and what the Israeli government is doing.

 

[TheJman]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4775861,00.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing


So to be clear, what do 48% of Israeli Jews support given the results of the poll as described by the Ynet article?

Since when is the truth libel?

Go and ask someone around you what they understand by the term ethnic cleansing .. I did, they gave me the example of Rwanda, where the word cleansing was understood to be "wiping out" or "killing" ... I accept that the definition may refer to removal.. but I stand by the belief that the understanding of it is associated with what the Nazi's did to the Jews.. which, you believe is what the Jews are doing to the Arabs.. see a treblinka and gas chambers in tel aviv have we?

 

[TheJman]

Where do you read explosion? It's expulsion. And I'm guessing you don't know what 'ethnic cleansing' means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing



That's precisely what that poll shows, and what the Israeli government is doing.

Typo.. thanks for picking it up..

OD.. same gauntlet is laid down to you to go see for yourself and stop relying on news articles for your view points ... Why is it that BDS and some antisemitic organisation in WITS removed members from their ranks because they went to Israel.. why is it that those particular students came back and said that what they saw, was not what they were told or read.. Enlighten yourself with your own eyes

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Go and ask someone around you what they understand by the term ethnic cleansing .. I did, they gave me the example of Rwanda, where the word cleansing was understood to be "wiping out" or "killing" ... I accept that the definition may refer to removal.. but I stand by the belief that the understanding of it is associated with what the Nazi's did to the Jews.. which, you believe is what the Jews are doing to the Arabs.. see a treblinka and gas chambers in tel aviv have we?

No, that's genocide.

 

[Xarog]

Go and ask someone around you what they understand by the term ethnic cleansing .. I did, they gave me the example of Rwanda, where the word cleansing was understood to be "wiping out" or "killing" ... I accept that the definition may refer to removal.. but I stand by the belief that the understanding of it is associated with what the Nazi's did to the Jews.. which, you believe is what the Jews are doing to the Arabs.. see a treblinka and gas chambers in tel aviv have we?

You're delusional.

I'm saying the mindset of the Israeli Jews makes them blind to the ways they discriminate against non-Jews. The longer they remain blind to this, the more likely that it becomes that they commit an unforgivable atrocity and doom the state of Israel in the process.

If you're not worried about this, then move on and don't pay what I say any mind.

And ethnic cleansing is usually violent, but it is distinct from genocide, which is what you would be alluding to. Both are crimes against humanity under international law. Both are fundamental violations of human rights, and no person should be subject to such behaviour.

But the Israeli Arabs have a reasonable cause to fear that they might be subjected to such violence by people inside Israel who politically support such a move (sitting at 48% atm).

 

[TheJman]

You're delusional.

I'm saying the mindset of the Israeli Jews makes them blind to the ways they discriminate against non-Jews. The longer they remain blind to this, the more likely that it becomes that they commit an unforgivable atrocity and doom the state of Israel in the process.

If you're not worried about this, then move on and don't pay what I say any mind.

And ethnic cleansing is usually violent, but it is distinct from genocide, which is what you would be alluding to. Both are crimes against humanity under international law. Both are fundamental violations of human rights, and no person should be subject to such behaviour.

But the Israeli Arabs have a reasonable cause to fear that they might be subjected to such violence by people inside Israel who politically support such a move (sitting at 48% atm).

I apologise, my understanding of it was wrong (and apparently that of the support staff where I work)... I accept this.

Fact remains, go to Israel and see for yourself - if you are so willing to fight for the truth.. surely this is the logical thing to do?

 

[Xarog]

Fact remains, go to Israel and see for yourself - if you are so willing to fight for the truth.. surely this is the logical thing to do?

Have you been inside the Occupied Territories then?

And if such a time comes where my choices about Israel and Palestine have any effect beyond the words I say, then I'll go visit Israel to make sure[SUP]tm[/SUP] what the truth is.

But I somehow doubt that I will be surprised. I generally think that the observations about Israel by people such as Uri Avnery will ultimately prove to be a reasonably fair accounting of the state of Israel.

 

[TheJman]

Have you been inside the Occupied Territories then?

And if such a time comes where my choices about Israel and Palestine have any effect beyond the words I say, then I'll go visit Israel to make sure[SUP]tm[/SUP] what the truth is.

But I somehow doubt that I will be surprised. I generally think that the observations about Israel by people such as Uri Avnery will ultimately prove to be a reasonably fair accounting of the state of Israel.

Yup, I have - and I have spoken to Israeli Arabs who laugh at what the stuff I've showed them that is reported and said here... I believe the one guy said that "when they come to South Africa, they are arabs from palestine, but as soon as they land back in Israel, they say they are Israelis and proud"... Also, on that point, in terms of this particular thread, we're talking about Tel Aviv and.. as you so clearly put it, Israel-Arabs and Israelis as a whole..

I distinctly remember you saying that there is no way arabs use their children as human shields... then when presented with evidence.. you changed your mind, thats why I really wish you would go and at least see it for yourself..

I choose not to comment on threads that I don't know about because when you assume things.. well.. you make an "A$$" out of yourself, but hey, that's just the way I view life - don't comment until you've seen for yourself

Good luck and have a good weekend!