It's Mr Video versus Universal Studios

[noxibox]

Is it a bad law? Is copyright and trade mark law abused to stifle competition?

If they're hurting the local distributors I don't really care because those distributors have repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be greedy and to have no concern for the consumer. Admittedly their behaviour is no different to the movie studios themselves.

Respect each other, in the movie business? I think you're thinking of some other business.

Running a video shop is being in show business? That's a good one.

 

[Movielover1]

have the results of the case been announced so we can ascertain whether they are breaking the law?

No the courtcase has been postponed apprently by request of Universal - the rumour is that Fox, Disney, Paramount, Warner Brothers etc are also joining the courtcase against Mr Video. Remember Universal Studios is suing Mr Video, not SK ad NM. Also remember the release dates are set by the studios not NM SK.

And yes they are definately breaking the law. I refer again to the DTI regulations as in my previous post - "In the majority of cases middlemen are appointed by their foreign principals as the exclusive importers of the principal's product. Most of the parallel importation in South Africa is done through middlemen or licensed importers. The middlemen, it must be noted, is an independent businessman and is not controlled by the manufacturer. The effect of the license is that it allows the licensee i.e. the middleman, to have access and exclusive importation rights of the manufacture's products while at the same time it guarantees the manufacturer access to the market. In return the licensed importers assume certain obligations such as marketing, after-sales and protection of the goodwill acquired, by ensuring consumer protection and satisfaction. " In other words the studios has a contract with SK and NM who are the middlemen and has given SK and NM the right (licenses) to distribute in S.A. SK and NM has paid the studios for this right and the contracts are renewed on a regular basis (not sure exactly what the time frame is). Mr Video and others like them bypass the local distributor who has the licence to distribute for the manufaturer and buys direct from overseas and then distributes here in there stores sometimes even before it has been released to theater.

And in response to Albereth - A lack of morals, a disregard for peoples' rights and the law is the reason why our country is in the state it is. It seems we have completely forgotten what it is to respect one another and to live in harmony. I'm sure NM and SK makes money from what they are doing otherwise they would not be in existance, I also as a rental shop owner make some money that is why we are all in business or why we work and my staff get paid for their work so they are making money.

The distributors has the right to distribute - they have paid millions to the studios for that right. So maybe we should lay the blame at the studios for charging license and distribution fees. After ll it is them wh determens when we can watch the movies in S.A.. Or maybe we should lay the blame on the people that actually manufacture the DVD's surely they make money from it? But maybe we should then blame the producers and directors for getting paid for making movies And what about the writers? And then blame it on the actors for getting paid millions for performing in a movie... and everyone else who is involved with making a movie so that we can be entertained by escaping while watching a movie for an hour or two. Surely the person that "manufactures" and funds the "product" has the right to distribute as they want and to recoup the cost of producing the product and maybe make some money off it?

So if we get rid of the distributors, studios and the writers and producers and directors and actors and everyone from the caterers to the stunt men that earns a living from entertaining us we will all be staring at a blank screen. No, sorry we will be staring at adverts on TV the whole night...

 

[Movielover1]

Is it a bad law? Is copyright and trade mark law abused to stifle competition?

If they're hurting the local distributors I don't really care because those distributors have repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be greedy and to have no concern for the consumer. Admittedly their behaviour is no different to the movie studios themselves.

Respect each other, in the movie business? I think you're thinking of some other business.

Running a video shop is being in show business? That's a good one.

Copyright - So if you design a specific product yo have no problem with someone else taking your idea and making moey off it?

Distributors - How has the local distributors ever let you down?

Respect - I'm talking about respect in general, for laws and life and fellow human beings and the right to earn a living and to trade.

I never said I'm in show business. I said I'm in the service industry which happens to be part of showbusiness. It was meant as a lighthearted comment but obviously you did not get it. I provide a service for people that want to watch movies in the privacy or their own homes and who dont want to necesseraly buy the product.

 

[Albereth]

Please don't confuse the payment of the artists with the payment of the distributors. You'll find that very little money actually goes to the artists, most goes to the distribution chain.

You quoted a section from the dti about aftersales and goodwill protection. I have already illustrated how this does not happen. This makes a dvd a widget, a commodity.

You are buying a product and hopefully adding some value in your service to customers. Nothing more. The fact that your channel is under threat should motivate you to do something fundamental, not complain that life is unfair. We know that already.

If you are not going to adapt, you are going to die. You have said that there is a lack of morales etc but if you don't adjust your view to take that into account you are on a hiding to nothing. I am not suggesting that we all descend into anarchy but you need to act (somehow) and quit think that NM and SK are on your side. They aren't. You just go in the same direction occassionally.

 

[milomak]

In representations made to the Consumer Affairs Committee on behalf of distributors of hi-fi equipment, television equipment, video cameras, watches, photographic equipment, it was alleged that parallel importers tend to enter markets where the demand for particular products has already been stimulated. As a result, they are sharing in the gains without having made any contribution.

This is quite scary. So if someone opens the first supermarket in a neighbourhood, does this meanno-one else can as they are reaping the benefits of seeing people in a neighbourhood like having a supermarket there?

 

[Movielover1]

You can not tell me that actors getting paid up to $50mil per movie is just a rumor and that the studios and directors don't make any money. And if the distributors are making so much money off us all why are they retrenching so many people? As I said before I'm fully aware everyone is just in it to make money - maybe you did not get my point. What you are basically saying is that it's ok for Mr Video to totaly disregard the rest of the industry and do their own thing at the expense of everyone else as long as they make a few quid. Never mind if they damage the local industry and close down a couple of distributors and other rental stores in the process.

I disagree that the Dti comment does not happen. The whole reason there is a court case at the moment is because of this.

I never complained that life is unfair. Trust me I'm well aware that life is what you make it. It is always easy to critisise someone if you have not walked in their shoes. If my business does not exist anymore I will probably be the only one to regret it and maybe a few customers will miss me and the service I provided and then probably move on to Mr Video. And then when the local distributors are gone and the stores who do not believe in parallel importing is gone what will then happen to the consumers? Will you all rent from Mr Video who will not have any competition or anyone to hold them in check or will you just order all your movies from overseas and hope that the rand exchange does not drop too much so you end up paying more that we where selling/renting out for before all went pear-shaped?

Actually I did not complain at all. I was raising the point that it's not ok to just do what is good for you at the detrement of thousands of other people who is only trying to earn a living. I don't think the owner of Mr Video for one seccond cares whether I succeed or not why should he? Apparently he is worth over R20 mil.

NM and SK is just my suppliers. I buy their stock and rent it out. As long as they supply me with DVD's that play when you put it in the DVD player at a reasonable price I have no problem with them.

 

[Devill]

why should they not do it?

Isnt the whole business thing about who has the lead on his/her competitor?

I agree with the statement: "However the customer is best served"

If the shops get me(they guy who is paying!!!) the newest movies asap i will continue to rent/buy there!

When competition is not allowed that is called a monopoly....

These shops have "upped" their game....maybe the rest of the industry should to?

 

[Movielover1]

Ha ha! You guys are unbelievable! I would love to know what industries you work in and who made you such experts?

I agree with competition and again, I have said that before. I've always been a competative person especially when it comes to business. I listen to my customers and do my best to meet their needs but I will not do it illigally.

The service in my shops is of the best and my staff gets rewarded for performance and customer service.

Competition is allowed within the law. I have no problem with any other rental shops who trade fairly and I welcome their competition. The shops with parallel movies may as well be stocking pirated movies. To me it's one and the same thing - they did not accuire the stock legally. Last time I looked anyone can open a rental shop and nobody forces anyone to be part of a franchise.

If you prefer to support someone who trades iligaly it's your perogative and good luck to you. Don't get upset one day when something simmilar happens to your industry and nobody is there to fight for your rights.

 

[Pixie22]

I still rent/buy movies sometimes, but I will always choose to have them on my pc instead if I can. I really hope its only a matter of time before the internet wipes out all renting and selling of hard copy media.

 

[Movielover1]

If I may ask Pixie, why would you like to see renting and retail wiped out?

 

[Pixie22]

The biggest problem with hard copies is that their quality degrades with use. I have not been able to watch the endings of movies many times before. Very frustrating. Too lazy to complain and I generally drop the movies off in the morning before the place opens anyway so..

I don't think there is any other option as opposed to the current system, in our country at the moment tho, and with our current internet cost/availability/performance/caps. Would be very nice if all branches were online and people could search for movies by genre, actors, directors, Customer ratings and their realtime availability. You would have your memeber account and you would be able to book online even days before you want it, just to make sure of availability. Then you would just have to walk in and fetch it as opposed to finding it on the shelf. You would receive an sms reminder if you booked in advance. You would receive an sms if someone did not bring back the dvd. your account could be credited with cash at any of the branches, or via credit card on the net etc. You could have optional emails of new releases with specific criteria. Maybe this already exists, i dunno.

 

[Movielover1]

Very interesting points and someting my shops are already looking into. We have an internet site and email address for requests. We are also currently working on and setting up online booking facilities for our customers.

We send out weekly sms's to imform customers of the new releases for that week to enable them to phone and book their preffered movies and we also have the facility to sms you when the booking is ready for collection.

We do often have customer return movies damaged/scratched but for this we have a special DVD polisher in store to clean up the scratches. Unfortunately contrary to popular belief DVD's do get scratched and it they have scratch marks or fingerprints on them they will not play.

It seems the only thing we don't do is trade with illigal stock...

 

[ginggs]

5. I personally think that renting out Zone 1 is against competitions comission rights as I do not have the infrastructure or finances to import movies direct from America so my businesses are suffering.

It is cheaper to import movies direct from America, so how can you not have the infrastructure or finances?

 

[chiskop]

Movielover, I'm no expert (at least in this field). I just want to rent movies on my terms.

1. Region coding is anti-consumer. There is no benefit, it is just a hassle.
2. Mr Video are taking advantage of a loophole/niche created by your distributors. Instead of complaining and taking legal action, why aren't they closing that loophole by providing videos when people want to watch them?
3. My business is based on my skills, not some artificially created monopoly. We try to give our customers what they want when they want it.

 

[Devill]

If it was illegal then wouldnt it have been stopped already?

 

[noxibox]

As long as they supply me with DVD's that play when you put it in the DVD player at a reasonable price I have no problem with them.

That's how I feel about region 1 DVDs from Mr Video.

 

[noxibox]

It is cheaper to import movies direct from America, so how can you not have the infrastructure or finances?

I think he is referring to the cost and administration involved in getting the movies the stamp of approval from the FPB. I personally don't believe anyone should have to bow this organisation either or pay them to have something scrutinised. If the government wants to do this they should carry the cost.

5. I personally think that renting out Zone 1 is against competitions comission rights as I do not have the infrastructure or finances to import movies direct from America so my businesses are suffering.

I think it is unfair that Microsoft has billions of Dollars. Someone should take it away from them so we can compete on a level playing field. It isn't fair that movie studios and music labels get infinite copyright that stifles my ability to create new material without risking getting sued. It isn't fair that Microsoft, Apple and others hold patents on the most trivial things preventing me from competing.

You may have heard the cliche that it isn't personal, it's only business.

 

[noxibox]

The biggest problem with hard copies is that their quality degrades with use. I have not been able to watch the endings of movies many times before.

There wouldn't be a problem with DVDs if they weren't apparently all being rented by people with the maturity of a two year old. I remember this with VHS as well. I was regularly shocked by the abuse our tapes received at the hands of the customer.

You would have your memeber account and you would be able to book online even days before you want it, just to make sure of availability.

Some people want it that way. We very rarely book anything. We like to walk in pick something on the spot. Don't know what you're going to see that night until you get to the shop.

 

[noxibox]

And then when the local distributors are gone and the stores who do not believe in parallel importing is gone what will then happen to the consumers?

If you don't believe in competing I'm sure there will be others willing to step in and take them on.

With SK and NM out of the way we could even get a real import industry going here.

 

[noxibox]

This is quite scary. So if someone opens the first supermarket in a neighbourhood, does this meanno-one else can as they are reaping the benefits of seeing people in a neighbourhood like having a supermarket there?

Things are bad enough already, don't give them more ideas about how to prevent competition.

You can not tell me that actors getting paid up to $50mil per movie is just a rumor and that the studios and directors don't make any money.

Those people represent a tiny, tiny, miniscule fraction of the people who work long hard hours to make movies happen. Most of those people get very little in comparison. The music business is even worse. As is book publishing.

These organisations all employ accountants the mafia salivate over, accountants who can make it appear that a major blockbuster movie made a huge loss.

Companies like Ster Kinekor do have deserved reputation for being greedy bastards, but it is obviously true that they aren't making the bulk of the money. That is made higher up the chain. Doesn't justify their price gouging though.