It's Mr Video versus Universal Studios

[Albereth]

The complaint if you will was about trading legally vs trading illigally and I think I have prooved so far that you guys like most consumers are not aware of all the facts. The fact that you are still arguing the point on weather paralell for rental is legal or not proves my point. If it was legal and Mr Video has been in existance for what 15years? why did they only start doing it within the last year? Where thir 230 stores being threatened by the supperior service provided by their competitors?

This is a completely different arguement. Parallel importing isn't illegal. What is illegal is to try and claim that these goods are identical to those brought in through 'official' channels. Take a look at the Hi-Fi Corporation. Its whole model is built on parallel imports and it provides its own guarantees and service.

But, as I have discussed elsewhere, the material on a DVD is not 'purchased'. You acquire a license to view the material under certain restrictions. Typically, you are not permitted to broadcast or screen publically. And our Copyright Act allows individuals to import items even if the rights to copyright have been ceded to a local agent providing that it is for personal use.

Okay, you then need to add First Sale rights into the mix. Bascially, the item is mine to dispose of as I will. Me selling my DVD to you doesn't violate the rights of the copyright holder. But some copyright holders like the money so they challenge this principle because if there is no second hand market but there is still a demand, they get to make all the profit.

Mr Video may be in contravention of copyright law if there is a prohibition on the renting of the material. That has nothing to do with where or how they sourced the material. Someone mentioned MS so to bring them into the loop. MS had to warn people about the licensing conditions of their operating system and had to provide a mechanism for returning the OS if you did not agree to be bound by it. Show me a single DVD that has this stipulation clearly marked on a surrounding wrapper. The fact that you may only see the warning after you have played the disk leaves a lot of people on very shaky ground.

You have also mentioned that it is Universal that is pursuing Mr Video and not SK or NM. This is going to end up being really interesting as Universal will be trying to impose Californian law on South Africa and would have to show what damages it suffered. As they don't provide directly into the SA market their losses are nil. They may have to claim that they suffered indirect losses as SK and NM ordered less product but then SK and NM will have to be party to the whole saga and they'll have to jusify how a decline in sales isn't as a result of a number of factors in the market including decreased disposal income due to interest rate, fuel, and food increases. Or that there is a shift to people actually importing their own copies from overseas.

 

[Albereth]

Post your sources or take your garbage elsewhere.

WASHINGTON - INTERPOL Secretary General Ronald K. Noble has warned governments and law enforcement agencies that there is growing evidence of a link between intellectual property crime and terrorist financing.

In documents prepared for his testimony on 16 July before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on International Relations, Mr Noble said the problem may become more serious in future and he called for enhanced efforts, including a new partnership between industry and police, to combat it.

'The link between organized crime groups and counterfeit goods is well established. But INTERPOL is sounding the alarm that intellectual property crime is becoming the preferred method of funding for a number of terrorist groups,' Mr Noble said.
'There are enough examples now of the funding of terrorist groups in this way for us to worry about the threat to public safety. We must take preventative measures now.'

Mr Noble noted that law enforcement agencies do not generally treat intellectual property crime as a priority area, and there is less funding for such investigations than for counter-terrorism or illicit narcotics.


Okay - from the same crowd that though having Selebi as its head was a good idea

 

[ginggs]

ISK and NM does send money overseas yes but surely not all their money.. or they would not be in existance.

Clearly they keep quite a lot, how else could it be cheaper for me to import individual discs for less than I can get them here?

What about the jobs they create, What about the jobs shops like Look and Listen and Musica and all the rental and retail shops create? Is that not money spent here?

If it weren't for SK and NM's price gouging, rental and retail shops could make more money and employ more people.

You guys need to start looking at the bigger picture.

Are you suggesting we stop renting and rather go to the cinema?

 

[Movielover1]

What utter bullsh*t on both accounts. I now highly doubt you are who you say you are and fully expect you are a corporate-shill paid to post your companies spin here.

Do us a favor and post your tripe elsewhere, or at least try backup your ridiculous claims with some data. I think you will find it close to impossible to find a credible source to support your outrageous claims.

Then you are more ignorant than I thought. Scary thjing is it's all avalable facts on the internet. http://www.fpb.gov.za/

http://www.rlslog.net/us-attorney-piracy-funds-terrorism/
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/mul...eiting-and-piracy-support-terrorism-video.htm

I have told you who I am and what I do. Why have non of you told me what industries you work in?

 

[Movielover1]

Why do i care if the people that are making $80mil a year lose $10mil a year?

Screw them same goes for all musicians and movie stars.....you did not find the cure for cancer or Aids so why are you earning tens of millions of dollars each year?

I can see you have alot of compassion....Must have alot of friends. Is that why your name is Devill?...

 

[Movielover1]

Clearly they keep quite a lot, how else could it be cheaper for me to import individual discs for less than I can get them here?

If it weren't for SK and NM's price gouging, rental and retail shops could make more money and employ more people.

Are you suggesting we stop renting and rather go to the cinema?

So what is your problem with companies making money? I suppose I should not bring up the petrol price with you 'caus some one is surely making loads of money there...

Renting is still cheaper than cinema but that again is a personal choice. Do you like staying home or do you prefer the Big screen? The point was legit trading vs illiigal trading.

 

[chiskop]

I have told you who I am and what I do. Why have non of you told me what industries you work in?

I want to rent movies at a time and price that suits me - what i do for a living is irrelevant to this discussion. You okay with that?

Region coding has nothing to do with piracy - as the Mr Video pamphlets show it is trivial to bypass the system. It is all about protecting markets. I would prefer not to use greymarket goods, but if the "whitemarket" distributors aren't interested in what I want, then I choose to use the distributors that do care.

It's very simple. If Universal > SK / Nu Metro feel that their market is being threatened, they need to close the loophole that they created -> they need to bring the videos to market when they are released in the US. That would take away the gap that Mr Video is currently thriving on.

 

[Movielover1]

This is a completely different arguement. Parallel importing isn't illegal. What is illegal is to try and claim that these goods are identical to those brought in through 'official' channels. Take a look at the Hi-Fi Corporation. Its whole model is built on parallel imports and it provides its own guarantees and service.

But, as I have discussed elsewhere, the material on a DVD is not 'purchased'. You acquire a license to view the material under certain restrictions. Typically, you are not permitted to broadcast or screen publically. And our Copyright Act allows individuals to import items even if the rights to copyright have been ceded to a local agent providing that it is for personal use.

Okay, you then need to add First Sale rights into the mix. Bascially, the item is mine to dispose of as I will. Me selling my DVD to you doesn't violate the rights of the copyright holder. But some copyright holders like the money so they challenge this principle because if there is no second hand market but there is still a demand, they get to make all the profit.

Mr Video may be in contravention of copyright law if there is a prohibition on the renting of the material. That has nothing to do with where or how they sourced the material. Someone mentioned MS so to bring them into the loop. MS had to warn people about the licensing conditions of their operating system and had to provide a mechanism for returning the OS if you did not agree to be bound by it. Show me a single DVD that has this stipulation clearly marked on a surrounding wrapper. The fact that you may only see the warning after you have played the disk leaves a lot of people on very shaky ground.

You have also mentioned that it is Universal that is pursuing Mr Video and not SK or NM. This is going to end up being really interesting as Universal will be trying to impose Californian law on South Africa and would have to show what damages it suffered. As they don't provide directly into the SA market their losses are nil. They may have to claim that they suffered indirect losses as SK and NM ordered less product but then SK and NM will have to be party to the whole saga and they'll have to jusify how a decline in sales isn't as a result of a number of factors in the market including decreased disposal income due to interest rate, fuel, and food increases. Or that there is a shift to people actually importing their own copies from overseas.

What proof do you have that parallel importing (for business proffit) is not illigal? I have given proof and sources everytime anyone has asked for it but not one of you guys has yet given me any proof that what Mr Video is doing IS legal... And keep in mind that SK/NM hasthe distribution rights from the studios, Mr Video does not...

 

[chiskop]

What proof do you have that parallel importing (for business proffit) is not illigal? I have given proof and sources everytime anyone has asked for it but not one of you guys has yet given me any proof that what Mr Video is doing IS legal... And keep in mind that SK/NM hasthe distribution rights from the studios, Mr Video does not...

Movielover, we are less concerned with that.

What proof have you given us that the existing system is in the best interests of the consumer?

 

[Movielover1]

I want to rent movies at a time and price that suits me - what i do for a living is irrelevant to this discussion. You okay with that?

Region coding has nothing to do with piracy - as the Mr Video pamphlets show it is trivial to bypass the system. It is all about protecting markets. I would prefer not to use greymarket goods, but if the "whitemarket" distributors aren't interested in what I want, then I choose to use the distributors that do care.

It's very simple. If Universal > SK / Nu Metro feel that their market is being threatened, they need to close the loophole that they created -> they need to bring the videos to market when they are released in the US. That would take away the gap that Mr Video is currently thriving on.

I don't care if you are a bum or a rocket scientist. Don't accuse me of lying about who I am. There was never a loophole, Mr Video ignored licenses and agreements aswell as trade industry regulations to line their own pockets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Everyone keeps dragging SK and NM into this again and again when it is the Studio who started the courcase. Get over it. It's not SK or NM and I definaely do not work for them. I own my own business which is 2 DVD rental shops.

 

[chiskop]

Relax in your slacks. I've never accused you of lying or misrepresenting yourself. I think your wrong, and just thinking of your own position - but you probably think the same of me.

Funny, I was just reading that wiki page - where is there any mention of anti-piracy? (Except for one brief mention wrt region 5)

My problem is not necessarily with SK, Nu Metro or Universal. It is with the region encoding system. It is anti-consumer. I will support anyone who attempts to look after the consumer and if that means running around the bull**** region encoding system, thats fine by me.

What I was trying to say in my previous post was that Mr Video's niche exists because the distribution chain has allowed it. If they released region free dvds simultaneously in all their markets - mr Video wouldn't have the headstart he does.

 

[icyrus]

Then you are more ignorant than I thought. Scary thjing is it's all avalable facts on the internet. http://www.fpb.gov.za/

http://www.rlslog.net/us-attorney-piracy-funds-terrorism/
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/mul...eiting-and-piracy-support-terrorism-video.htm

I have told you who I am and what I do. Why have non of you told me what industries you work in?

More garbage. Did you even read the links that you have provided? Not a single fact there. Show me data or admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You have told us who you claim to be, but that doesn't mean anything to me when you sprout such garbage that any thinking person with access to the internet could immediately discover to be false. Then it becomes kind of hard to take anything you say seriously. Consider, as a case in point, the "dvd region codes are to stop piracy" garbage you have just spouted.

 

[Movielover1]

Movielover, we are less concerned with that.

What proof have you given us that the existing system is in the best interests of the consumer?

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere! You don't care about anarchy, justice or fairness and basically you are self centered. The WHOLE POINT is that you SHOULD care! You should care about each perosn that is affected by crime in whatever way in this country. Or are you one of those people who would buy a stolen TV on the side of the road and don't care if some woman was raped in the robery or if the faher of a child was shot and killed just to steal the TV and re-sell it.

Everyone is raping this country and nobody gives a **** because it's all me, me, me!!! As loing as I am fine, as long as I get the best deal, as long as I don't know what is going on I am great! The fact that you guys don't give a sh*t about the small stuff but only about how YOU will bennefit is what has us in this sh*t in the first place.

Say Mr Video wins this court case (I suppose anything is possible but please God forbid this happens). You don't care about the people that could loose their businesses, you don't care about the thousands of families that depend on the money earned in this country from the rental shops or even the distributors or even the retail stores.

Whoopy lets all just buy on Amazon and the likes so the Americans (who is currently dragging the WHOLE world into a recession!!) can get all our money!

Wake up guys! Don't piss on your own doorstep. Please go wild, import all you want for your PERSONAL use if you prefer to buy instead of rent. Don't support shops that trade illigally.

 

[icyrus]

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere! You don't care about anarchy, justice or fairness and basically you are self centered. The WHOLE POINT is that you SHOULD care! You should care about each perosn that is affected by crime in whatever way in this country. Or are you one of those people who would buy a stolen TV on the side of the road and don't care if some woman was raped in the robery or if the faher of a child was shot and killed just to steal the TV and re-sell it.

Everyone is raping this country and nobody gives a **** because it's all me, me, me!!! As loing as I am fine, as long as I get the best deal, as long as I don't know what is going on I am great! The fact that you guys don't give a sh*t about the small stuff but only about how YOU will bennefit is what has us in this sh*t in the first place.

Say Mr Video wins this court case (I suppose anything is possible but please God forbid this happens). You don't care about the people that could loose their businesses, you don't care about the thousands of families that depend on the money earned in this country from the rental shops or even the distributors or even the retail stores.

Whoopy lets all just buy on Amazon and the likes so the Americans (who is currently dragging the WHOLE world into a recession!!) can get all our money!

Wake up guys! Don't piss on your own doorstep. Please go wild, import all you want for your PERSONAL use if you prefer to buy instead of rent. Don't support shops that trade illigally.

Facts have failed you so you're hoping to rely on emotional blackmail and hyperbole? Pathetic.

 

[chiskop]

That was one hell of a slippery slope there. I had to wipe my face to check none of your spittle had made it through the forum.

End of discussion.

 

[Movielover1]

Facts have failed you so you're hoping to rely on emotional blackmail and hyperbole? Pathetic.

Well obviously your concience does not keep you up at night. Sorry, you obviously don't have one.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere! You don't care about anarchy, justice or fairness and basically you are self centered. The WHOLE POINT is that you SHOULD care! You should care about each perosn that is affected by crime in whatever way in this country. Or are you one of those people who would buy a stolen TV on the side of the road and don't care if some woman was raped in the robery or if the faher of a child was shot and killed just to steal the TV and re-sell it.

Everyone is raping this country and nobody gives a **** because it's all me, me, me!!! As loing as I am fine, as long as I get the best deal, as long as I don't know what is going on I am great! The fact that you guys don't give a sh*t about the small stuff but only about how YOU will bennefit is what has us in this sh*t in the first place.

Say Mr Video wins this court case (I suppose anything is possible but please God forbid this happens). You don't care about the people that could loose their businesses, you don't care about the thousands of families that depend on the money earned in this country from the rental shops or even the distributors or even the retail stores.

Whoopy lets all just buy on Amazon and the likes so the Americans (who is currently dragging the WHOLE world into a recession!!) can get all our money!

Wake up guys! Don't piss on your own doorstep. Please go wild, import all you want for your PERSONAL use if you prefer to buy instead of rent. Don't support shops that trade illigally.

Uhm ...... and that little tirade would be suited to a discussion about buying movies on the side of the road ... not Mr Video getting theirs from the States. Rape and murder and burglary? Seems the plot has been lost

 

[runspot]

Facts have failed you so you're hoping to rely on emotional blackmail and hyperbole? Pathetic.

Movielover I am with you, I know what its like to run a business (and trying to make a HONEST BUCK) and businesses like Mr Video are getting away with murder because idiots like these guys support them while what they are doing IS illegal AND NOT MORALLY SOUND. Get a life, DO NOT SUPPORT MR VIDEO, I hope they loose the case and go to jail for it....

 

[Nod]

Region coding has:

• Increased piracy (I can download the unreleased movie, and see it before anyone else)
• Created favouritism (Who decided that the US or EU should be able see some movie first and why?)
• Complicated the hardware manufacturing side of things.
• Prevents you from buying online (overseas) to some degree.

Without region coding:

• Less piracy (nobody would have to download a movie to see it first, it's out everywhere)
• Rental shops would get the content at the same time, worldwide.
• Hardware would work worldwide out-of-the-box (no region bypasses).
• Could buy a DVD anyplace worldwide, and it would work (better competition on price).

I'm sure there are plenty more positives for region free, and more negative effects of region coding.

Say Mr Video wins this court case (I suppose anything is possible but please God forbid this happens). You don't care about the people that could loose their businesses, you don't care about the thousands of families that depend on the money earned in this country from the rental shops or even the distributors or even the retail stores.

How would other stores lose out? If Mr Video win, it would open the door for everybody to do the same thing. Everybody wins.

 

[icyrus]

Movielover I am with you, I know what its like to run a business (and trying to make a HONEST BUCK) and businesses like Mr Video are getting away with murder because idiots like these guys support them while what they are doing IS illegal AND NOT MORALLY SOUND. Get a life, DO NOT SUPPORT MR VIDEO, I hope they loose the case and go to jail for it....

Is that the sound of 100 sock-puppets clapping?

Attempting to set your flag on the moral high-ground without ever providing any facts, evidence or data to support your position will reduce you to nothing but a laughingstock. Back in the drawer with you sock-puppet.