It's Mr Video versus Universal Studios

Relax in your slacks. I've never accused you of lying or misrepresenting yourself. I think your wrong, and just thinking of your own position - but you probably think the same of me.

Funny, I was just reading that wiki page - where is there any mention of anti-piracy? (Except for one brief mention wrt region 5)

My problem is not necessarily with SK, Nu Metro or Universal. It is with the region encoding system. It is anti-consumer. I will support anyone who attempts to look after the consumer and if that means running around the bull**** region encoding system, thats fine by me.

What I was trying to say in my previous post was that Mr Video's niche exists because the distribution chain has allowed it. If they released region free dvds simultaneously in all their markets - mr Video wouldn't have the headstart he does.

I understand and appreciate your points and even to a certain point agree with them. Did you ever concider that Mr Video has the headstart because he is only looking after himself? I'm sure they would love to be the only rental stores standing and to get rid of any other independant/fanchise shop that shares in the market (very much like the Microsoft situation everyone complains about) . That is why Mr Video opens shops every 2km without concidering their franchisees who already exist in the area. I know of at least 2 cases where he did not even consult with the existing franchisees if they would be interested in or care if another Mr Video franchise was opened 2km down the road.
 
Right. I will continue this discussion until it descends to name-calling or crap again. FWIW, I have never bought a roadside DVD, or even downloaded a movie/tv show. It is something that I feel strongly about. Fair is fair - pirated videos are not fair, region-encoding is not fair.

Needless to say, I have not participated in any of the other crimes that you accused me of supporting. :rolleyes:

I have no particular love for Mr V, or any other video shop. I go where the videos that I want to watch are. I'm sure Mr Video is looking out for himself - so am i and so are you. In this case though, mr Video's interests and mine are aligned. I didn't know, nor do i really care, about how Mr V shafts his franchisees. It seems pretty shortsighted, but it's not really my concern.

You have yet to tell me how the current distribution model benefits customers - that is what I do care about.
 
1. Region coding was implemented to protect against piracy - that is the benefit. Did you know it is a proven fact that money generated from piracy has been used to fund terrorism?

That is a pretty innocuous statement as the following things also funds terrorism.

Kind Hearts for Charitable Human Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_Hearts_for_Charitable_Human_Development)

Libel tourism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism)

Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Foundation_for_Relief_and_Development)

So basically what I am saying is anything can be used to fund terrorism so using that as an excuse to stop something is very scary indeed.

Do you really believe that the activity, in this case piracy, is the source of funding for terrorism?

Let me give you an example. You are an employer as you have stated, so am I. According to the AA/BEE laws you are forced to employ a certain race based on the colour of their skin irrespective if they had any involvement in the apartheid era. According to the law you may not discriminate based on religion. Said person goes to their religious centre and donates money you paid them as a salary. That money gets donated by said institution to for example "Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development".

So the question is. Is the following statement true or false?
"You and the South African goverment through the laws currently enforced in this country directly fund terrorism"

Also as someone has mentioned the region code was brought in to make movies cheaper for the third world ie a movie should cost less in SA than it would in the USA. However SK/NM through their distribution channel has not passed that saving on to the consumer but have instead decided to keep that margin as profit for themselves. Like they say in afrikaans (hulle het 'n lat vir hulle eie g*t gesny).

Do you believe the practive of selling a movie in SA at the equivalant dollar to rand price is fair practive by SK/NM when we know region 2 dvds are cheaper to buy for SK/NM?

2. If it makes you so unhappy to have to wait a few months to watch certain movies why don't you just move to L.A. so you can be there when they show the premiers?

Well following that logic. Universal et al SK/NM etc hold back the release of a movie in SA. I have the choice of waiting for it as you state or just plain buying it for personal use. That means I will not be renting the movie by the time Universal/SK/NM decide to release it in SA and you have it in your shop. So lost business for you and I have spent that money outside SA which is lost revenue for SK/NM and the country.

Do you believe that Universal/SK/NM holding back the release of a title in SA is beneficial to your business and the country?

The FPB is there to protect our children from pornograpy (child and adult), violence and indecent behaviour.

Who or what gave you(SK/NM/FPB) the right to decide what I may or may not watch. And sorry making the perambulatory "for the protection of children" does not give you a stronger case.
Do you understand the concept of freedom? You may ignore this one as it is not appropriate to the issue at hand. I am leaving it in for completeness sake.
Do you have legal hardcore pornography in your store?
I doubt it. That is LEGAL yet you dont keep it. I wonder why as it is legal?

The FPB may advise the age restriction of a movie and slap a warning on it, no more. You can go and read on the FPB site the movies that have had the highest warnings. Not one of them has been released by SK/NM.

The question. By what law do FPB/SK/NM propose through collusion to determine what I may or may not watch?

Maybe if more people spend their money locally instead of sending it to the USA our currency and economy can get stronger and things can become more affordable...

Do you believe that the delaying of releasing movies in SA hinder or promote me spending my money locally?
Or do you think maybe that SK/NM is forcing me to spend my money internationally?

If you can answer these questions with a reasonable answer to justify the existance of these I would gladly change from MR V to any other video store.
 
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Chiskop - To be honest I can not answer your question. What I do know is that I do my best to keep my customers happy within the law. I have no controll over when the studios decide to release movies in what ever format to whatever region and neither does SK or NM. I feel that they put up the money to produce and publish the movie so they have the right to decide what is best for their business as I make decisions in my business everyday. The decisions may not always be the right ones but I do it on information available to me as I'm sure the studio's does. It would be nice to have someone from the studios explain to us why they think this is the best business model for all concerned.

Unfortunately Africa is a couple of years behind most countries. Why is it such a bad thing that we have to wait for the releases?
 
That is a pretty innocuous statement as the following things also funds terrorism.

Kind Hearts for Charitable Human Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_Hearts_for_Charitable_Human_Development)

Libel tourism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism)

Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Foundation_for_Relief_and_Development)

So basically what I am saying is anything can be used to fund terrorism so using that as an excuse to stop something is very scary indeed.

Also as someone has mentioned the region code was brought in to make movies cheaper for the third world ie a movie should cost less in SA than it would in the USA. However SK/NM through their distribution channel has not passed that saving on to the consumer but have instead decided to keep that margin as profit for themselves. Like they say in afrikaans (hulle het 'n lat vir hulle eie g*t gesny).



Well following that logic. Universal et al SK/NM etc hold back the release of a movie in SA. I have the choice of waiting for it as you state or just plain buying it for personal use. That means I will not be renting the movie by the time Universal/SK/NM decide to release it in SA and you have it in your shop. So lost business for you and I have spent that money outside SA which is lost revenue for SK/NM and the country.



Who or what gave you(SK/NM/FPB) the right to decide what I may or may not watch. And sorry making the perambulatory "for the protection of children" does not give you a stronger case. Do you understand the concept of freedom. Do you have legal pornography in your store. I doubt it. That is LEGAL yet you dont keep it. Wonder why.



See my point re buying the movie from overseas for personal use.

If you can answer these questions with a reasonable answer to justify the existance of these I would gladly change from MR V to any other video store.

Sorry, I don't see any questions so I'm not sure what you want me to answer?
PS: I do keep soft Porn - Out of sight of chidren and it is always avaialble to any customer who request.
 
Movielover - I appreciate your less-rabid tone, and the fact that you're actually in this business.

Having said that, i think that the last thing on the studios' minds is "the best business model for all concerned". :)

Why should we have to wait for the releases? There's no technical reason, it's just protectionism.

Movielover said:
What I do know is that I do my best to keep my customers happy within the law.
Cool, and if I was in your business, I'd probably take the same attitude. But I certainly wouldn't support/defend something that is against my customers' interests.
 
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You are running away from his points

No, I'm right here. He said he wants me to answer his questions but the only question I see is about pornography availability in rental shops.... I don't know what he wants me to anwer... There is not even one questionmark in his whole message so I have no idea what he wants from me. maybe you can enligten me.
 
Cool, and if I was in your business, I'd probably take the same attitude. But I certainly wouldn't support/defend something that is against my customers' interests.

So arn't we all just protecting ourselves just like the studios are? And as much as I love and appreciate my costomers, right and wrong comes first. I'm not pretending to be righteous, I have many mistakes, I just firmly believe that what they are doing is wrong. If it was legal there would not be a courtcase and all rental stores would have been doing it for years.

Have a good evening guys. Chat to you 2morrow.
 
No, I'm right here. He said he wants me to answer his questions but the only question I see is about pornography availability in rental shops.... I don't know what he wants me to anwer... There is not even one questionmark in his whole message so I have no idea what he wants from me. maybe you can enligten me.

That seems to me like the classical Bill Clinton response of "define sexual relations". That is, you are just dodging the issue by being pedantic.

So arn't we all just protecting ourselves just like the studios are? And as much as I love and appreciate my costomers, right and wrong comes first. I'm not pretending to be righteous, I have many mistakes, I just firmly believe that what they are doing is wrong. If it was legal there would not be a courtcase and all rental stores would have been doing it for years.

Just because there is a courtcase doesn't mean that what they are doing is illegal. One of the parties has interpreted the law differently to another. The courts will decide which it is. Using your logical every defendant in a case would always be guilty.

The DTI extract you provided in one of the other pages provides clear guidelines of when parallel imports/goods are acceptable.
 
Unfortunately Africa is a couple of years behind most countries. Why is it such a bad thing that we have to wait for the releases?

Because we don't want to wait. Africa doesn't need to be behind. It's not like they have to put the dvds on a ship that takes a year or two to sail here!
 
So arn't we all just protecting ourselves just like the studios are? And as much as I love and appreciate my costomers, right and wrong comes first. I'm not pretending to be righteous, I have many mistakes, I just firmly believe that what they are doing is wrong. If it was legal there would not be a courtcase and all rental stores would have been doing it for years.

Have a good evening guys. Chat to you 2morrow.

No you've missed what I said. I'm saying that if I was in your business I would abide by the rules out of expedience. I would certainly not join a forum and post all sorts of rationalistions about terrorism/child pornography/piracy to try to justify a broken and anti-customer system.
 
No, I'm right here. He said he wants me to answer his questions but the only question I see is about pornography availability in rental shops.... I don't know what he wants me to anwer... There is not even one questionmark in his whole message so I have no idea what he wants from me. maybe you can enligten me.

Question marks inserted.
 
So arn't we all just protecting ourselves just like the studios are? And as much as I love and appreciate my costomers, right and wrong comes first. I'm not pretending to be righteous, I have many mistakes, I just firmly believe that what they are doing is wrong. If it was legal there would not be a courtcase and all rental stores would have been doing it for years.

Have a good evening guys. Chat to you 2morrow.

Can you answer me one thing?

If this was illegal (impoting from USA before local release) why are the zone1 dvds still on the shelves?

Why have there been no arrests?

I really dont think it is illegal, i think they are just good business people :)
 
Obviously this debate can carry on until the cows come home. I will not change my point of view and neither will you. I'm sure even if Mr Video is found guilty you will still not change your mind and you have the right to your own opinion.

I don't have children but see many in my shops and on the FPB issue I feel that we have the right to protect our children. I'm glad that there is someone out there who takes the time to grade moves and advise us on what is suitable fr a 6 year old and what is not. If you are younger than the age restriction specified and your parents allow you to watch that is their perogative and I won't deny you that.

I don't work for a studio or distributor so I have no say in why they do what they do and I know they are in it for the money. Good luck to them.

I do work in my own business and have been in this industry for just over 3 years. What I do know is that for as long as there has been regional coding (for whatever reason) it has been illigal for a rental shop to stock anything that does not fall into their zone because of licensing agreements between the studios and local distributors. Until our government and our courts decide this is unfair and scrap the zoneing system and tell me it is OK for me to stock any zone in my shops I will not break the law.

If Mr Video do loose the court case and it is then declared fair to stock any zone in my shop I will gladly do so. But never ever do it as long as it is detremental to the industry and other rental shop owners as it is at the moment.
 
Why is it illegal for rental shops to stock other zones, but you can buy DVDs from different zones at any of our local online stores (take2, kalahari, etc)?
 
What proof do you have that parallel importing (for business proffit) is not illigal? I have given proof and sources everytime anyone has asked for it but not one of you guys has yet given me any proof that what Mr Video is doing IS legal... And keep in mind that SK/NM hasthe distribution rights from the studios, Mr Video does not...

Please don't mix things into the same bucket.

Parallel importing is not illegal.

What is illegal is to claim that the goods brought in in parallel have the same quarantees and warrantees as those brought in through 'official' channels.

I can bring in what I want (assuming that it isn't an illegal item). Let's say I import a Canon camera.

I may sell it. I may not claim that it can be serviced by Canon SA, that the warrantee will be upheld by Canon or any of those good things.

Now onto DVDs. I may import what I want.

Whether I can sell it is really dependant on the First Sale rights arguement that hasn't been finalised.

Whether I can rent it out is dependent on copyright restrictions on the media itself.

Neither of these have anything to do with importing, parallel or otherwise.
 
Why is it illegal for rental shops to stock other zones, but you can buy DVDs from different zones at any of our local online stores (take2, kalahari, etc)?

First Sales versus Copyright infringement. The first is just a sale for private use, the second is 'broadcasting'.
 
I don't have children but see many in my shops and on the FPB issue I feel that we have the right to protect our children. I'm glad that there is someone out there who takes the time to grade moves and advise us on what is suitable fr a 6 year old and what is not. If you are younger than the age restriction specified and your parents allow you to watch that is their perogative and I won't deny you that.

Not sure how it is for rental stores but movies houses are in big do-do if they are caught (yeah right) ignoring the age restrictions on movies. And the only prerogative that parents have is when the movie has a PG rating. A parent may not allow a 10 year old to see a 16SN movie but could take him to a PG13 movie.

Policing this is a 'mare and every can always say 'What about DSTV and E-TV?'. Multichoice would argue that their decoders have the capability built in, but the terrestial channels?
 
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