Jail the racist

joeyhza said:
I'm not in the least bit surprised you would think that. Saying apartheid and racism are not the same absolutely is NOT a bogus argument.
Hilarious.
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:erm:

I would suggest you stop being delusional and look at what people are actually saying and not what you're accusing them of having said.

The reality is that there is a tangible difference between hating other people because of their skin colour and what you do about it. So far as I know, there's no group of white people that is denying the right of black people to vote and to enjoy all the other basic fundamental rights guaranteed by our constitution. Black people do not face discrimination at the hands of the government on the basis of their race. Niether of these things were true during Apartheid.

So whatever the majority is being subjected today, clearly it is not anywhere nearly as bad as what people suffered under Apartheid. So in that sense there's a clear difference in terms of just how racist a system can be. Your attempt to say that what people suffer today is the same as what they suffered under Apartheid is ridiculous.
 
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ellyally said:
Racists are racists, racism is racism, it either is or it isn't, we can't go down a road of 'scaling degrees'. If one person is more brazen than another about it, doesn't change the fact that they are both racists. Eg, saw a post from someone about wanting to skin all white people(was screen shot posted on here somewhere), that to me is more 'brazen' than any other post I've seen, regardless of posters colour. It doesn't make it more or less racist than what sparrow said. They are both racist.
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Hating you because you kicked my dog is legally OK. Saying you're a douchebag because you kicked my dog is also legally OK. Shooting you for having kicked my dog is not legally OK.

The question is ultimately not whether the particular action was motivated by a hatred of the person's skin colour (i.e. racism), but rather what the consequences of their actions based on that hatred were, and to what degree those consequences violate the rights of other people.

To criminalise motivations of racism purely on the grounds that they are racist is to persecute people for what they believe. It has no place in a democratic society.
 
ellyally said:
Racists are racists, racism is racism, it either is or it isn't, we can't go down a road of 'scaling degrees'. If one person is more brazen than another about it, doesn't change the fact that they are both racists. Eg, saw a post from someone about wanting to skin all white people(was screen shot posted on here somewhere), that to me is more 'brazen' than any other post I've seen, regardless of posters colour. It doesn't make it more or less racist than what sparrow said. They are both racist.
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Nonsense. The term racism is abused and covers a multitude of things - some reasonable and some unreasonable. Group reputation often gets lumped in with malicious racism when really it's simply reputation. Saying asians are good at maths is the same group observation at play, except its a positive statement. In the same way its possible to say something negative about a group without it being untrue or malicious. Saying asians are good at maths is to imply that other races are not as good at maths, which is to pre judge non asians negatively, or to imply that asians are better than non asians - which under your view of racism would be just as evil as calling someone monkeys.
 
Just for interest sakes, here is Germany's Laws on what i think the ANC is referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
§ 130 Incitement to hatred (1985, Revised 1992, 2002, 2005, 2015)[31][32]
(1) Whosoever, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace:

incites hatred against a national, racial, religious group or a group defined by their ethnic origins, against segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or

assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population,

shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.[31][32]
(...)

(3) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.[31][32]

(4) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying, or justifying National Socialist rule of arbitrary force shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.[31][32]
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Now i suppose in SA you can replace "national socalist" (in #3 and #4 above) with "apartheid" to apply that law here.

The interesting part, if they were to implement that law here, people like Zuma and Malema will also be in jail right now, as they have numerous times defamed and called for violent and/or arbitrary measures against whites.

Unfortunately i bet the ANC will only implement #3 and #4 above and ignore the important #1 part.

That Kohler-Barnard woman would most likely have been prosecuted under rule #4 above.
 
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Zyzzyva said:
Nonsense. The term racism is abused and covers a multitude of things - some reasonable and some unreasonable. Group reputation often gets lumped in with malicious racism when really it's simply reputation. Saying asians are good at maths is the same group observation at play, except its a positive statement. In the same way its possible to say something negative about a group without it being untrue or malicious. Saying asians are good at maths is to imply that other races are not as good at maths, which is to pre judge non asians negatively, or to imply that asians are better than non asians - which under your view of racism would be just as evil as calling someone monkeys.
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No, I'm saying the opposite. Think you missed what I'm saying. I'm saying thats where we can't go. If we start down a road of 'whites seem to be more brazen' they get an 8/10 on the racist scale, 'blacks tend to be a little less brazen than whites' they get a 7/10 on the racist scale, then we may as well just burn the country to ashes. We can't go down this road of you are a more 'brazen' racist because you were born white/black etc... racism is racism. ANC is already trying to split hairs with things like the DA billboards saying they're racist and 'implying a black government can't create jobs' etc. The moment we start with this 'you're implying/between the lines/hidden message/undertones' we're all in for a world of hurt. Either a statement needs to be racist or not. If we start going into 'but by saying asians are good at maths implies other races are not therefore its racist' then this country is in for full clamp down of basic rights. Either something is racist or it isn't, no 'if you squint your eyes and read it upside down while smacking your arse you can see its racial tone' BS
 
ellyally said:
No, I'm saying the opposite. Think you missed what I'm saying. I'm saying thats where we can't go. If we start down a road of 'whites seem to be more brazen' they get an 8/10 on the racist scale, 'blacks tend to be a little less brazen than whites' they get a 7/10 on the racist scale, then we may as well just burn the country to ashes. We can't go down this road of you are a more 'brazen' racist because you were born white/black etc... racism is racism. ANC is already trying to split hairs with things like the DA billboards saying they're racist and 'implying a black government can't create jobs' etc. The moment we start with this 'you're implying/between the lines/hidden message/undertones' we're all in for a world of hurt. Either a statement needs to be racist or not. If we start going into 'but by saying asians are good at maths implies other races are not therefore its racist' then this country is in for full clamp down of basic rights. Either something is racist or it isn't, no 'if you squint your eyes and read it upside down while smacking your arse you can see its racial tone' BS
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I see now what you meant. I apologise.

Clearly racism needs to be more clearly defined and limited, because it's current sacred cow status as the all encompassing amorphous evil which cannot be countered even when misapplied allows it to be abused for practically any selfish agenda.
 
While looking for something I stumbled on this pearl of wisdom:

67 “[E]ach right is always already limited by every other right accruing to another citizen. In the context of privacy this would mean that it is only the inner sanctum of a person, such as his/her family life, sexual preference and home environment, which is shielded from erosion by conflicting rights of the community. This implies that community rights and the rights of fellow members place a corresponding obligation on a citizen, thereby shaping the abstract notion of individualism towards identifying a concrete member of civil society. Privacy is acknowledged in the truly personal realm, but as a person moves into communal relations and activities such as business and social interaction, the scope of personal space shrinks accordingly.”
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- Justice Ackermann -- Bernstein and Others v Bester NO and Others (CCT23/95) [1996] ZACC 2; 1996 (4) BCLR 449; 1996 (2) SA 751 (27 March 1996)
 
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Xarog said:
If not her, they would have found someone else to start a controversy over. Do you really think they didn't go looking for someone to out as a racist?
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ghoti said:
You are spot on about this. The ANC is spending billions on manufacturing perception this election cycle. This is going to happen a lot more. Every day people say stupid racist things on social media. Now all of a sudden they have a problem with this? As elections start?
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images (5).jpg
 
Xarog and ghoti, exactly what I was thinking. Zuma is out to get votes. Turn the 'undecided' black voter away from the DA to the ANC.
 
mwill said:
Xarog and ghoti, exactly what I was thinking. Zuma is out to get votes. Turn the 'undecided' black voter away from the DA to the ANC.
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Rather than successfully engineet a racist scapegoat and event, the media jumped onto a racist user's story, it sold and garnered huge public attention and the media vultures did what they do best, they posted more racism stories to sell papers that already have an incredibly **** sell rate.

With all this fuss, everyone has to get involved, including the DA and ANC
 
And i can tell you tomorrow, if a story broke tomorrow on the ill treatment of a house cat and it sold papers, the ANC and DA would have a stance on that too
 
STS said:
And i can tell you tomorrow, if a story broke tomorrow on the ill treatment of a house cat and it sold papers, the ANC and DA would have a stance on that too
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Some of us care more for cats than people ...
 
"The original intention was not to criminalise hate speech, which can already be dealt with as a civil matter in the Equality Courts ... but in light of the current developments we felt, as justice, we need to look at that.
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Step 1: Manufacture public outrage
Step 2: Push through a nasty law in the name of justice/safety/patriotism etc

Time honoured tradition of dodgy regimes...
 
In Germany, section 130 of the Volksverhetzung (incitement of the people) legislation makes it a crime to incite hatred against a national, racial, religious or ethnic group, or make statements that "assault the human dignity" of such groups. Offenders may receive jail sentences of between three months and five years.
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Legislation like this will hurt the ANC and EFF agendas a lot.
 
Redirecting, the ANC is doing this well. There are way more serious things to worry about than this. The economy, current crime issues and job losses thanks to the ANC. Everything that the ANC is doing wrong. Now the ANC is luring the puppet media with all this racist nonsense.

This issue has been with this country ever since there has been a South Africa. We all see it, blacks and whites being racist, it's old news and its boring. Boo hoo! Now it's suddenly going to change. I guess there are some great optimists that believe there won't be wars tomorrow as well.

I will tell you how to decrease racism built more schools, upgrade the education system. Teach people about each others cultures. Guess what, even if everything is perfect, there will still be racists, it's human nature. Let me make this even simpler. Do all blacks like all the other blacks, no. Do all the whites like all the other whites, no. Do all the chinese like all the other chinese, no. Sometimes it's not even racism, people just cannot like everybody.

Now that I am done stating the obvious. We have a better chance to get the money from Zuma for Nkandla, than ever stopping racism in the next 100 years. Making laws does nothing and the law enforcement cannot even handle the current laws.

Redirecting, the ANC does it well.
 
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