Java Cafe / Viva Computers Warning

  • Thread starter Thread starter me
  • Start date Start date
Seems you don't know how processors are made. All processors with the same specifications from the 3000+ up to the 4000+ and beyond are made from the same large silicon die. AMD doesn't know what speed the cpu is going to be run at so after they tested it and found that it's working they put it in its package and test the most effective speed it will run at. As the manufacturing process gets better the lowest and highest speed of the processors can be upped.

In order to mark a processor as running on a specific multiplier AMD includes a set of micro-fuses on the processor die. After they have decided on the highest multiplier possible for a processor they apply a high voltage to a combination of processor pin sets in order to "blow" them. This method bacame widely used in the very popular PIC processors made by Microchip. The difference between a blown and not-blown fuse then represents a 0 or 1 which is used by a circuit in the processor to compare it with the multiplier it's running at. By applying a thin wire as a jumper to some of the blown fuses and blowing some of the working fuses if necessary you can mark your processor to run on any multiplier you wish. By looking at the layout of the pins you can narrow down which of the pins are used for fuses. Hey I could actually become an engineer after this explanation. :D
 
Last edited:
Prometheus said:
made from the same large silicone die.
Click to expand...

Er.. I think that would be silicon. Silicone is what Pammie has in her boobs ( or had - I heard she had had them taken out ).

From the wiki:

"(Silicones) can vary in consistency from liquid to gel to rubber to hard plastic."

I get that I think.

"The most common type is linear polydimethylsiloxane or PDMS."

Which must be the cause of PMS.
;)
 
jabulani said:
Er.. I think that would be silicon. Silicone is what Pammie has in her boobs ( or had - I heard she had had them taken out ).
Click to expand...
Err, ok. Typing finger needs more practice.
 
Ah but you see prometheus. The 'knowledge" you have is more than 10 years old if not older
A64 3000+ came in newcastle, winchester and venice cores. Each of these cores housing 128K L1 and 512K L2. OpV 1.5,1.5 & 1.4V
A64 4000+ however was always based on the same core as the 939 Opetron, like the Athlon64 FX series. Ie, clawhammer, san diego and recently with dual core, Toledo cores.

A64 3000+ ha 68.5M gates vs 106M of the 1MB cache parts like sledgehammer\san diego\clawhammer.

Knowing this does not make one an engineer and believe that its a lot more complex than blowing a fuse. What goes into making a cpu is beyond forum talk so lets not even attempt it at an engineering level.

Joining pins like you could back in the AthlnXP days (prior to week 3303) is no longer possible. I used to set multipliers using copper wire on my AIUHB 2200+ and that was because my board had no multiplier adjustments.
When Barton came out the multi was locked and there was no way to change the multiplier at all and that's why for a brief stint. The M-AthlonXP were a hit because, besides using the A64 like SOI1 Tech, they had unlocked multipliers needed for cool and quiet to work.

Making and understanding a CPU i not something one learns over the internet.
 
Umm, funny how people always assume that a person's knowledge stems from the internet when there are so many sources out there...
 
Prometheus said:
Umm, funny how people always assume that a person's knowledge stems from the internet when there are so many sources out there...
Click to expand...
What sources... where ? You mean to tell me your read Books ? :D
 
Person said:
What sources... where ? You mean to tell me your read Books ? :D
Click to expand...
Lets see. How did I start learning electronics 12 years ago when the internet was completely unaffordable. Definitely books. Or was that scrolls? No, it was books. :D I just find it insulting that whenever something is mentioned on this forum everyone seems to think that you read read it on some webpage put up by some wannabee webmaster.
 
You still have not shown how you intend on turning a 3000+ CPU into a 4000+. A feat that AMD themselves would find rather difficult <_<
 
Like I said, only a few custom modifications are needed. You say that it's impossible to change the multiplier on an Athlon64. But lets not forget that according to AMD initially it was "impossible" to change it on the Athlon and Athlon XP as well. Then in the end everyone took out their pencils and showed AMD that it WAS POSSIBLE. I don't think I have to explain to you how changing a cpu's speed will give it a performance increase. AMD also uses standard cooling methods to determine the maximum operating speed of a processor since this is the most widely used.

If you however still believe that it's impossible to select the multiplier setting then why don't YOU tell me how AMD does it, since I don't see them going through the trouble of using other methods instead of the old tried and trusted ones. I don't however feel like discussing this any further as I don't feel the need to get into a pointless argument since we obviously believe differently.
 
And finally you expose how wrong you are. AMD never said you couldn't change the multi on the AthlonXP, you always could from AthlonC all the way to T-BredB prior to week 33/03 like I said. After that and with the Barton it was locked, just like intel has been locking their CPU's from the PII in 1998 (SLW2 stepping+)

Add to which with AthlonXp no one was using pencils, but copper wire or conductive paint. YOu would make a "U" shape with the wire and drop it into the mobo and set whatever multi's you wanted. There was even a shim you could buy that would have all the relevant contact points to select your desired multiplier.

So those few custom modifications you talk about are non existant.
With your attitude you mis inform and hold back people's growth. You may have been able to pull a fast one on others here, but not with me you won't. I've been overclocking heavy for years on end now and ther isn't an AMD CPU I haven't used save for Opetron's so try again.

I may have less than 60 posts but that don't mean take me as a N00b.
 
ShockG said:
And finally you expose how wrong you are. AMD never said you couldn't change the multi on the AthlonXP, you always could from AthlonC all the way to T-BredB prior to week 33/03 like I said. After that and with the Barton it was locked, just like intel has been locking their CPU's from the PII in 1998 (SLW2 stepping+).
Click to expand...
WHAT!? I did no such thing! AMD have been locking the multiplier from the Athlon upwards. I just can't remember if it was from the first ones or only a bit later. My previous processor was actually a Duron, the budget version of the Athlon. The problem was that if you only changed the multiplier without unlocking it, it wouldn't start up, I would know since I tried it. And yes I used a pencil to set the multiplier. Conductive paint is the alternative if you can get your hands on it, but it's not neccessary to go through the expense as the carbon in a pencil is enough to form a conductive path. You can still do this even with the Athlon XP which is locked just like the other Athlons.

With the Athlon64 they changed it so that it was only locked upwards in order for cool 'n quiet to work. They also changed the package so that only the pins are now external. You probably never used the pencil trick because it sounded too archaic to you, but don't forget that the reason you were able to get your hands on conductive paint was probably because they saw a market for it thanks to the guys slaving their asses off in a dark lab somewhere with a pencil. So don't mock it until you tried it and found it to actually work.

But just because I have a few hundred more posts than you you take me for a noob and probably assume I have nothing worthwhile to say. :rolleyes: Instead of giving a reason why you think that an Athlon64 can't be run on a higher multiplier you keep on saying that it's locked but forget to mention that people have been adjusting multipliers on locked cpus for years now. With that attitude you are only misinforming and holding back people's progress. ;)

That's it, I'm out of this thread. No reason to continue a pointless argument.
 
Locked: All week 43 (0343) to 46 Bartons and Thoroughbreds and most (but not all) post week 46 Bartons and Durons:

Source
 
Ok, but that doesn't explain why my 800MHz Duron from about 2000 was locked and why it was unlockable and how some people managed to unlock a "factory locked" cpu.
 
Thank you BTTB at least you know what is meant by locked.

To you prometheus, it is not the carbon that allows the pins to be joined, if that was the case you could easily use a piece of paper or your finger if you wanted. It was the graphite in the pencil. So much for your 12years of electronics. You really need to ask for a refund.

Anyway, the debate is over. You are wrong and thats that. We all know about CnQ and the lower unlocked multipliers itsx good that you found out about it this year. Maybe in 2011 you'll realise that all A64's other than FX were locked. ;)
 
Prometheus, I'm just wondering, IF it is possible to unlock an Athlon64, why has no one been able to do it AFAIK? Or are there people that have done it?

Surely if there was a way to do it people would have figured it out by now, it isn't as if the Athlon64 only came out a few weeks ago.
 
Who gives a f...

@P and S

I am currently using a AMD 64 bit CPU.
I have had all sorts of AMD CPU's in my life.
In my cupboard is sitting the old famous JUIHB 1700+ that could easily do 2600+ speeds. I have locked Bartons and unlocked Bartons. 2500 Bartons that can do 3200 etc etc.
Time is moving so fast in the Computer World.
I cannot remember all these things any more. :o
I look at my sons NF2 set-up and it looks like it comes from Noah's Ark, although it was just the other day we were still using them.
I forget all this mumbo jumbo about T/Breds, Bartons, Thorntons. It is just getting too much to remember.
And AMD are releasing a new bunch of AM2 chips now, so we will have to start remembering all these one's tweaks and little bits of info etc. How much cache for instance. Is it now 256 or 512 or 1mb of cache. Is it dual core or single core.
Does windows even know what is going on any more? I am confused myself.

My current Venice 3200 runs at 2650MHz stable and I am happy for the moment and that's all that matters. ;)
 
Last edited:
ShockG said:
To you prometheus, it is not the carbon that allows the pins to be joined, if that was the case you could easily use a piece of paper or your finger if you wanted. It was the graphite in the pencil. So much for your 12years of electronics. You really need to ask for a refund.
Click to expand...
Graphite (named by Abraham Gottlob Werner in 1789, from the Greek γραφειν: "to draw/write", for its use in pencils) is one of the allotropes of carbon. Unlike diamond, graphite is a conductor, and can be used, for instance, as the material in the electrodes of an electrical arc lamp. Graphite holds the distinction of being the most stable form of solid carbon ever discovered.
Click to expand...

Next you'll be trying to convince me that water isn't made up of hydrogen and oxygen. And no you can't use your finger or a piece of paper because the carbon is arranged in a different molecular configuration just like diamond. Your finger is actually conductive. If it was small enough and you pressed hard enough you would actually be able to use it. And, never used a pencil to join any pins as that would be very hard to get right. I used it to join bridges. Bridges are those little dots on the older Athlons which was soldered together to form a "bridge".
ShockG said:
Anyway, the debate is over. You are wrong and thats that. We all know about CnQ and the lower unlocked multipliers itsx good that you found out about it this year. Maybe in 2011 you'll realise that all A64's other than FX were locked. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm still waiting for the part where you THINK you "proved" me wrong. I don't see how I can convince someone that doesn't know what a pencil's basic boulding blocks are of my point anyway. Please come back when you have learned something about basic science, then we can actually get to a point where you don't say: "i'ts not possible" without giving a reason.
nGAGEd55 said:
Prometheus, I'm just wondering, IF it is possible to unlock an Athlon64, why has no one been able to do it AFAIK? Or are there people that have done it?

Surely if there was a way to do it people would have figured it out by now, it isn't as if the Athlon64 only came out a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...
nGAGEd55: Yes there are people doing it. How many of it is true I wouldn't know, but because there are some websites showing you which pins to join suggests that there are some basis for these claims. Besides, AMD would even maintain that the world is flat if it was of some value to them so don't believe everything that they are telling you about locked cpus.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X