Java vs. Delphi

As an engineering graduate, low level programming (assembly code) is more in my field, which isn't to say that I can't program in a high level language. The important thing to remember is that in any practical application, 80% of your thought process shouldn't be in the actual programming, it should be in the overall design of your program (i.e. analysis of the problem, devising an algorithm, design of the structure, implementation, testing, etc.). The actual programming, as well as which language you choose, is simply a matter of syntax - pick up any textbook on any specific language, practice a little to get the syntax right, and you're good to go. If you can get the design right, then most of your work is already done, and this is where UML can prove to be invaluable.

Vensters you'll be fine with an honours and some experience, only push for a masters if you're looking to get into research and that kind of thing. In the working world there's not much of a difference between the two.
 
I've been a Delphi programmer for years. I love Pascal. And it is "friendlier" than Java or C.

But I am currently developing (and learning) in Java, and for me the principal reasons for switching are:

1) Java is open source and will continue to develop and grow as a language. IMO Delphi/Pascal is slowly dying.
2) Java is platform independent.
3) Java syntax is closer to most currently used scripting languages, such as Perl, Python and PHP.
4) Java is geared toward OOP and Web developement.
5) There is a far greater number of Java developers, meaning online support is unrivalled. If you get stuck... there is always an answer or code somewhere online.

Java seems more difficult than Delphi because the syntax is more symbolic. The code is Object Oriented from the word go, whereas in Delphi you still have strong elements of procedural code. But aside from that most of the programming concepts are similar. Learning curves are just as steep.

The Delphi IDE is very nice, but with Java there are many different IDE's available. I'm currently using NetBeans and I have no complaints so far.

Learning a language is about tackling small tasks and constantly building on what you have learned. I don't think learning Java should be any more difficult than learning Delphi, but I do think that the usefulness of Java now and in the future is a very compelling reason for making Java your language of choice.
 
PASCAL was devised by Nicklaus Wirt as a language for teaching programming, which is a good enough reason to start there. As posted by others, the language yo learn is not important as you will easily be able to learn any similar language. In the case Delphi this would mean any object oriented language, which pretty much includes all f the current main stream languages. If you remain involved in development you will learn many languages as many languages are devised for particular situations.

When learning how to program it is important that the language does not get in the way of learning the development process.

Go for Delphi, language isn't important in the long run. These days it could even be object oriented COBOL!
 
btw, I never did Computer Studies HG (programming) at school, but its not a requirement, and you do Java at Comp Studies and VB.net at UCT.
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In the end of the day, no employee cares what you did in school, sometimes they dont even care what you did in varsity [in terms of programming languages]. Computer Science in High School is just useful when you go to university/technikon..you have a bit of a kickstart initially but that's about it...

In fact i had some of my bosses say they rather want someone that can learn new things quickly [because that is what is happening in IT] than someone who is an expert in c++ and unwilling to drop it when company strategy dictates you must now code in VB [whether you believe vb is a "step down" or not].
 
All this info is really useful :) Thanks guys.
I would like to know how I evaluate whether or not programming is something I could do as a job? I have no idea what the benchmark is, and whether I'm above or below it!

I've done Computer Studies, like vensters, and I do fine in it. I've done quite a bit of my own programming on the side as well. However, my maths marks are comparable Mali's GDP :(
 
Well I said that I *never* did CS. I'm not too worried about that, then again Java would have been nice. But I'll learn it by myself after a year or two at university.

I actually enjoy programming from what I've done, and that means I can sit for hours and do it.. so its no problem. My maths marks are 80%+ so thats not a problem for me. I think people just like to use maths as a benchmark for how your brain will work in thinking out a program etc.. But I know a programmer who is extremely good, for his age, and he failed Maths SG, he just never liked it. So i dont think it really matters.

btw Nick, do you do CS at your school or do you go to SACS or Zwaanswyk like the people from my school do?
 
Oh right, sorry, bit early in the morning for me! I do it at SACS. I started programming by teaching myself in QBASIC, but then went on to Sams Teach Yourself Java in 21 Days (ya right!). Computer Studies has really made my coding a bit neater, and possibly a bit more thoughtful.
 
So how well are you doing at SACS? Two people from my school still do CS as SACS. One might have dropped out now.. but I know one guy still does it and gets in the 70%'s..

In the beginning about 15 people or something did it, and they just started dropping like flies..
 
Dovi said:
I've yet to see a post with a good motive for me for choosing delphi over java or vice versa;)
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I've worked in both Delphi and Java:
1. Delphi/Pascal is not a better language to start out with than Java as a couple of people mentioned (as an aside, I started out with Pascal). If those two languages are your only two choices for learning programming I'd go with Java - there is much more online tutorial material available which is vital when you're new to a language.
2. The second reason I'd go with Java is because you're far more likely to find a job one day programming in Java. Delphi is unfortunately a dying language.
3. The Java syntax is very similar to C#, if you ever need to switch to .NET this makes the transition easier.
4. There are great open source libraries available for Java which are usually free. Delphi seems to have far less.
 
I can see this can go on and on and on...which is cool as I'm also getting other viewpoints :D I mentioned in an earlier post that what I've said is MY experience only and shouldn't be taken as fact ;)

I have been in IT for 13 years. I started as a junior programmer on the mainframe and studied Cobol at tech. I therefore had a diploma and guess what, at Tech I was exposed to computers for the first time, having grown up on the Cape Flats. People place great emphasis on Maths and I agree to a point, but I actually failed Maths HG in matric. We didn't have a teacher for 6 months! In std 9 I got 75% so I had the aptitude.

I progressed through the ranks, programmer, senior programmer, analyst, etc. In 2000 our company changed strategy and became a Java house. I became a developer and went on from there. In 2004 I enrolled for the BComm Hons in IS at UCT and this is where my point comes in: YOU have to decide what you want to be in 5 years time. I know most people ask it in interviews, but be honest - do you want to be technical and become your company architect, or do you want to work with people and lean towards the business side of things. I chose the latter and since 2004 I have been in Project management and I also "line" manage a team of 6 experienced java developers. I am tasked with the recruitment for my team and believe me I do NOT look at what you did at school. If you are a Bsc graduate I know I have a "techie" for at least the next year. If you are a BComm graduate then I need to groom you to become a team leader or so. If you don't have a degree, then I look at your experience. Ultimately, your experience will get you through. That's what I look at and it may be flawed but I have YET to be proven wrong.

So no one can tell you what is the best, Java or Delphi; BComm or Bsc. All I can suggest is decide where your career has to go, then put in the effort to get you there!
 
Im not sure about that BCom and Bsc thing. It depends on the degree, if you do Computer Science (Programming) then you are more like a "techie", but you can take IS as both BCom and BSc. So are you referring to CS as Bsc and something like IS as Bcomm?

There is'nt much difference between BCom and BSc in IS, they are both business orientated.
 
Ekhaatvensters said:
Im not sure about that BCom and Bsc thing. It depends on the degree, if you do Computer Science (Programming) then you are more like a "techie", but you can take IS as both BCom and BSc. So are you referring to CS as Bsc and something like IS as Bcomm?

There is'nt much difference between BCom and BSc in IS, they are both business orientated.
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true and I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying BComm IS or Bsc IS...doesn't matter. When I interview BComm I hear about their ambition for Management and the business. When I interview Bsc, IS or not, they ask me which IDE we prescribe! Their passion for programming / development comes out and I need developers at the mo, not managers or Business Analysts. I need techies so give me a Bsc guy, IS or not, any day. That's my experience I say again :cool:
 
Fiekus said:
I am a BCom Hons IS graduate but I find Bsc graduates make better developers. I have recruited 6 the last few months alone and ALL have been Bsc grads. My client at ....a major life insurer in Pinelands :rolleyes: ONLY go for Bsc grads when it comes to developers. Reasoning being, Bsc grads are more techie material and enjoy cutting their teeth doing coding for a good few years. BComm guys are more geared to moving into Systems Analysis\Project Management\ Business Analysis very early in their careers, I should know, I'm a Project manager!!
And please guys, this is MY experience with graduates only, don't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way.

As far as Java is concerned, their is such a shortage in the market in CTN. If you know of any good Java guys, pm me :D Sorry moderators!
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Hi Fiekus.. Something bothers me here.. I'm a hardcore C programmer but (with some entry level C++/Java/Delphi eprerience) but ended up lecturing after my 18months+ experience (company went bankrupt). I have realized that my passion is still being involved in the actuall development/programming cause i'm more of a techincal hands-on person that sourcing my skills, which i enjoy as well. I have now over 2yrs struggling to go back to the industry & my feeling is not because i may not fit but i think it's the impression employers have that lectures are non-technical and cannot solve business problems. I mean i'm still young and am crazy about system solutions or project based development. As a recruiter or employer, what do you think is the case here? this really annoys me cause i know once given that little chance, i wud rock these guys minds and prove them wrong cause i know my programming above what they expect!
 
sonxEr77 said:
Hi Fiekus.. Something bothers me here.. I'm a hardcore C programmer but (with some entry level C++/Java/Delphi eprerience) but ended up lecturing after my 18months+ experience (company went bankrupt). I have realized that my passion is still being involved in the actuall development/programming cause i'm more of a techincal hands-on person that sourcing my skills, which i enjoy as well. I have now over 2yrs struggling to go back to the industry & my feeling is not because i may not fit but i think it's the impression employers have that lectures are non-technical and cannot solve business problems. I mean i'm still young and am crazy about system solutions or project based development. As a recruiter or employer, what do you think is the case here? this really annoys me cause i know once given that little chance, i wud rock these guys minds and prove them wrong cause i know my programming above what they expect!
Click to expand...

Well our company places GREAT emphasis on attitude, then experience, in that order believe it or not. I have JUST employed a BSc Hons developer with about 4 years experience, and he was actually a part time lecturer at UCT to first year students too. He started off as a lecturer assistant. I can't speak for other companies but I pulled out all the stops to get this guy because it told me, in a team environment, he would be able to mentor junior developers, and he would KNOW how to get his point accross. This is his first month with us and he is doing so well that I am giving him more responsibility as well.

My advice to you: know how to sell yourself. If you can bring out your "passion" for development, any would be employer would be crazy to ignore that, experience or not. I had another guy apply for a developer role and believe me, there is a shortage of GOOD Java developers in CTN so companies will employ enyone who can spell J-A-V-A. This guy had 2 years experience but spent the last 10 months in a .Net environment. No problem we thought. He told us how passionate he was to get back into Java and we thought GREAT! Then we asked him a simple technical question and he said "guys I haven't been coding in Java for almost a year". And I thought..."you say you're so passionate but why haven't you done ANY project in your spare time, at home or so to keep up to date with your passion"? Any simple app? Nothing. Employers pick up on the little things so blow them away with your passion, but do something about it too. If you can "talk the talk" then you've made a great impression. If guys ask you "where do you see the web technology going in the next few years" and you can answer with something like "developers are using Web Frameworks like Struts / JSF and are generating more code so that the "plumbing" is generated", resulting in shorter development iterations... anyway, don't wanna bore you ;)
 
Fiekus said:
true and I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying BComm IS or Bsc IS...doesn't matter. When I interview BComm I hear about their ambition for Management and the business. When I interview Bsc, IS or not, they ask me which IDE we prescribe! Their passion for programming / development comes out and I need developers at the mo, not managers or Business Analysts. I need techies so give me a Bsc guy, IS or not, any day. That's my experience I say again :cool:
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Like I said, ill PM you in 4 years then.

Well what I really wanted to add when i typed this, is to ask how easy it is to get a job straight out of university? All the job ads I see for these type of position want at least 2 years of experience or 1 year min for a junior post.. so how do you go about getting that year of experience?

And will any employer consider someone straight out of university for a reasonable job position?

I guess I'd be willing to work for cheap or perhaps not even quite in my prefered stream as long as its a nIT company and I get experience..
 
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I'm a BSc Computer Science student currently, i find the course really
challenging but at the same time very rewarding.

As far as the delphi/java battle goes... it really depends on preference,
if you like mostly object oriented stuff then Delphi else Java... Notice
what a simple IF statement that was? Same as the decision.

Enjoy.

:rolleyes: N7.1
 
Fiekus said:
Well our company places GREAT emphasis on attitude, then experience, in that order believe it or not. I have JUST employed a BSc Hons developer with about 4 years experience, and he was actually a part time lecturer at UCT to first year students too. He started off as a lecturer assistant. I can't speak for other companies but I pulled out all the stops to get this guy because it told me, in a team environment, he would be able to mentor junior developers, and he would KNOW how to get his point accross. This is his first month with us and he is doing so well that I am giving him more responsibility as well.

My advice to you: know how to sell yourself. If you can bring out your "passion" for development, any would be employer would be crazy to ignore that, experience or not. I had another guy apply for a developer role and believe me, there is a shortage of GOOD Java developers in CTN so companies will employ enyone who can spell J-A-V-A. This guy had 2 years experience but spent the last 10 months in a .Net environment. No problem we thought. He told us how passionate he was to get back into Java and we thought GREAT! Then we asked him a simple technical question and he said "guys I haven't been coding in Java for almost a year". And I thought..."you say you're so passionate but why haven't you done ANY project in your spare time, at home or so to keep up to date with your passion"? Any simple app? Nothing. Employers pick up on the little things so blow them away with your passion, but do something about it too. If you can "talk the talk" then you've made a great impression. If guys ask you "where do you see the web technology going in the next few years" and you can answer with something like "developers are using Web Frameworks like Struts / JSF and are generating more code so that the "plumbing" is generated", resulting in shorter development iterations... anyway, don't wanna bore you ;)
Click to expand...

Thanx Fiekus.. Only problem is to be get ooprortunity to be called for an interview so i can prove myself.. I suppose one can't prove himself if not given a chance to be interviewd is it? But thanx hey!
 
nigel07 said:
I'm a BSc Computer Science student currently, i find the course really
challenging but at the same time very rewarding.

As far as the delphi/java battle goes... it really depends on preference,
if you like mostly object oriented stuff then Delphi else Java... Notice
what a simple IF statement that was? Same as the decision.
Click to expand...

LOL I think you have it the other way around mate.
Java = OO
Delphi = procedural
 
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