LCD and Plasma Bargains and Discussions thread

[PostmanPot]

Certainly not by professional reviewers.

Might want to check your source site again and the general rankings.

The point of spending money on HD is to appreciate it, so choose the correct viewing distance relative to the largest size of screen you can afford. If you're not in the position to do this, then you might as well go to Cash Crusaders and pick up a CRT for far less money, it aint going to make a difference.

The point is that viewing distance plays a role in HD appreciation, add to this the fact that most people cannot tell the difference between HD sources. HD is appreciated less the further one sits. Not everyone site 1-1.5m from a 32", 1.5-2m from a 40", etc. according to the ideal 2*diagonal-of-TV viewing distance.

The experts agree.

Not sure why anyone with cash who wants to watch HD and SD would settle for a less than HD Ready screen since it won't work for HD.

This discussion is about the appreciation of (full) HD

Nope it's about SD still being important to many people. Quote the post you are replying to where I disagree about FHD. Reckon you missed the ball with this one.

With an HDPVR upscaling to 1080i, I'd put them very close. Anyway answer to 2) applies as well.

At least we agree that what I've said all along is correct. Anyway you've clearly shown lack of care for anything SD and especially how it disaplys on lower end LCDs. Compared to myself and others who still value SD being displayed nicely, who constantly compare it on multiple TVs, and therefore are more picky about it leading to understanding what looks better.

The objective is not to do it 'well', to appreciate full (HD) you need to see it at its full potential (1920x1080).

When you're at longer viewing distances, you're relying on the potential of the eye since most people cannot tell a difference between HD sources.

Hardly, as illustrated in the review excerpt above.

Guess I'm getting the best of both worlds then, always happy with the SD and HD display.

 

[DuncanCT]

40" LED or CCFL advice please...

I'm looking at a second TV and have seen these two...

Sony 40cx520 = R5k @ Makro
Sony 40ex520 = R6k @ Game

I have an irrational Sony bias.

What else is out there at 40" 5k to 6k range?

Is it worth finding something that passes the 4:4:4 chroma sampling?

 

[Roman4604]

Might want to check your source site again and the general rankings.

OK ... highest rated HD-Ready screen I could find was the PN51D450 at 7.6, with a slightly more respectable 1366x768 res compared to your beloved 1024x768. Lets take a look at their conclusions ...

Due to its inappropriately small native resolution of 720p and large size, picture quality suffers immensely.

The PN51D450 does have its bright spots, however, as its black and white performance is outstanding. Still, this isn’t enough to excuse the terrible resolution problems it suffers, and it may be better to pass on this TV unless you are looking for a big screen to put behind a bar or at a huge distance away from a viewer.

Oops, same as before.

Not everyone site 1-1.5m from a 32", 1.5-2m from a 40"

Mmm, the above excerpt gives some clues as to why.

The pseudo experts agree.

Fixed.

Not sure why anyone with cash who wants to watch HD and SD would settle for a less than HD Ready screen since it won't work for HD.

They shouldn't, since a HDPVR via HDMI to a 1024x768 panel & via composite RCA to a CRT is roughly the same out of date experience. The smart money would go toward a 1080i HDPVR + 1080p panel.

Anyway you've clearly shown lack of care for anything SD and especially how it disaplys on lower end LCDs.

I do, that's why I recommend getting an HDPVR which upscales SD to a 1080p TV's native 1920x1080 res, while placing no limitation on displaying full HD to its maximum potential.

Guess I'm getting the best of both worlds then

No, its obvious to most what the best of both worlds solution is.

 

[JerryMungo]

We've lost interest, Roman and Pot. Time to move it to another thread? Pls?

OK ... highest rated HD-Ready screen I could find was the PN51D450 at 7.6, with a slightly more respectable 1366x768 res compared to your beloved 1024x768. Lets take a look at their conclusions ...



Oops, same as before.

Mmm, the above excerpt gives some clues as to why.

Fixed.

They shouldn't, since a HDPVR via HDMI to a 1024x768 panel & via composite RCA to a CRT is roughly the same out of date experience. The smart money would go toward a 1080i HDPVR + 1080p panel.

I do, that's why I recommend getting an HDPVR which upscales SD to a 1080p TV's native 1920x1080 res, while placing no limitation on displaying full HD to its maximum potential.

No, its obvious to most what the best of both worlds solution is.

 

[PostmanPot]

OK ... highest rated HD-Ready screen I could find was the PN51D450 at 7.6, with a slightly more respectable 1366x768 res compared to your beloved 1024x768. Lets take a look at their conclusions ...

Oops, same as before.

Yet it was the same one you quoted about having scaling issues. Rated 7.3!

So once again, we highlight that scaling (and resolution) is not as important as you make it out to be. It's the reason CNET put resolution as the 4th most important factor.

None of these take into account the viewing distance of each individual, bear in mind. Viewing distance is important when advising.

Mmm, the above excerpt gives some clues as to why.

Not at all, since what's above only takes into account close viewing distance where the scaling and lower resolution would be noticeable.

Unfortunately for your argument, most houses are designed sensibly with longer viewing distances than 2m - at least in my experience which is quite good.

Fixed.

Not true, you know very well that the experts agree, and I already quoted them.

They shouldn't, since a HDPVR via HDMI to a 1024x768 panel & via composite RCA to a CRT is roughly the same out of date experience. The smart money would go toward a 1080i HDPVR + 1080p panel.

No it wouldn't be. Smart is to only specifically insist on 1080p panels when you're sitting close. Entry 720p plasmas continuously blow entry 1080p LCDs away. Once again, resulution is not as important, and the countless buyers over the years can attest to this. It's pedantic worrying about resolution when sitting far away, given most people cannot tell the difference between HD content.

I do, that's why I recommend getting an HDPVR which upscales SD to a 1080p TV's native 1920x1080 res, while placing no limitation on displaying full HD to its maximum potential.

But it's still better on a entry HDR plasma, which we've already established. The full potential of Full HD is only realised when sitting close unfortunately, at least for 99% of people. Should I pull up more experts?

No, its obvious to most what the best of both worlds solution is.

I disagree, since SD whether upscaled or not, suffers on 1080p panels, especially LCDs. Even 1080p plasmas are more forgiving.

 

[D1RTY D4WG]

Well no visitors can get over how good ALL channels sd and hd plus even less than sd videos look on my 43" hd ready Samsung 43d490. I'm glad I never forked out the extra cash for full hd. As the price difference would not have been worth it from seeing other people's full hd 1080i tv channels. But I suppose if you rent or buy a lot of blurays it will probably be worth it, but only for that.

 

[PostmanPot]

Well no visitors can get over how good ALL channels sd and hd plus even less than sd videos look on my 43" hd ready Samsung 43d490. I'm glad I never forked out the extra cash for full hd. As the price difference would not have been worth it from seeing other people's full hd 1080i tv channels. But I suppose if you rent or buy a lot of blurays it will probably be worth it, but only for that.

Same with my PS42C450. Owners of 1080p LCDs and HD PVRs always comment on how good my DSTV HD, SD, and sports channels look. Viewing distance and lighting are the keys (and no, it's not dim during the day yet produces a phenominal picture unmatched by similar LCD/LED-LCDs).

If I had a lot of 1080p media, like Blu-rays as you said, or if I connected my PC to my TV, or sat closer than 2.5 - 4m, of course I wouldn't have gone with 42" HD Ready plasma. I have a FHD LCD for that. Who on earth would advise 43" plasma for those purposes?

 

[JerryMungo]

It's like those B&O speakers I saw at a local hifi shop in the late 80s - they cost R80k back then and the sales pitch was that 'you could hear the spit in the artist's mouth as they sang'. Nice sales pitch lol. Honestly? The recording equipment VERY SELDOM matches the output potential.

 

[Roman4604]

Yet it was the same one you quoted about having scaling issues. Rated 7.3!

If you paid any attention to detail you'd see the 1st excerpt was from a LG 42PT350 review done by David Kender and the 2nd from the PN51D450 review by Chris Thomas.

Two different reviews, reviewers, models (LG & Samsung), same conclusion. HD-Ready TVs are unable to depict the full 1080p HD experience and are dinosaurs in this day & age.

Not true, you know very well that the experts agree, and I already quoted them.

All you've quoted is yourself using generic information twisted to your own purposes.

Entry 720p plasmas continuously blow entry 1080p LCDs away.

Again your unsubstantiated opinion.

countless buyers over the years can attest to this.

Relative to their scope of their own experience. If you havent experienced better, what you have will seem like the best possible.

That's why opinion of professional reviewers with breadth of in-depth experience covering the enitre spectrum of whats avaliable are the only credible source of unbiased opinion.

Should I pull up more experts?

Yes, I'd like to see recent model specific reviews/opinion which indicated purchasing a HD-Ready TV these days is a wiser, superior option to comparible FHD models. And generic information taken out of context doesnt count.

 

[MisterBigglesworth]

These daily deals are normally a rip off most times...but this deal is cheap, as a quick internet search has the cheapest price at R9k. This one is going for R7999. Thought someone might be looking?

SONY - 40” 3D Bravia Internet Full HD LED TV
Item No: 40EX720

Key Features:
Sony Internet TV
X Reality
Full HD 3D
Edge LED
Motion Flow XR200
BRAVIA Internet Videos
Internet Browser
Media Remote
Skype Ready
Wifi Ready
200Hz
Widgets
Presence Sensor
Intelligent Image Enhancer
Intelligent MPEG Noise Reduction
Ambient Sensor
USB x 2
HDMI x 4
1 Year Guarantee
5-7 Working Days From Dispatch For Delivery
Glasses Sold Seperately

http://www.24hoursonly.co.za

 

[PostmanPot]

If you paid any attention to detail you'd see the 1st excerpt was from a LG 42PT350 review done by David Kender and the 2nd from the PN51D450 review by Chris Thomas.

Two different reviews, reviewers, models (LG & Samsung), same conclusion. HD-Ready TVs are unable to depict the full 1080p HD experience and are dinosaurs in this day & age.

And I was echoing that the HD Ready plasma you presented on the basis of scaling which no one ever argued against still got highly rated (7.6, 7.3 or what not). Beats stacks of modern 1080p LCDs.

Who is arguing that they are not able to depict the full 1080p? That is the easiest thing to understand. Are you suggesting that the full 1080p experience is perceivable from any viewing distance? Are you suggesting that the vast majority of people cannot tell the difference netween HD sources unless they sit close? Are you disagreeing with the CNET article I posted earlier putting resolution at the 4th most important factor?

They are absolutely not dinosaurs and still sell in huge numbers because entry plasma gives better picture quality and provides the better value. What is incorrect is being hell-bent on one who sits 3m and further, outside the range of differentiating between 1080p and 720p, to rather buy a 11" smaller FHD LCD just because they have a 1080p res, over a 51" HD Ready plasma. We both know the plasma would offer a far greater experience to the majority of people. Size, contrast ratio, colours are far more important than resolution.

All you've quoted is yourself using generic information twisted to your own purposes.

I quoted professional reviewers (whom you highly regard) and what they say about the best TV purchasing advice. What they say about resolution correlates to real life experiences, and every educated person knows this. Nothing was taken out of context at all.

What you've done is taken my helping of people by explaining that the difference of 1080i HD PVR on a HD Ready TV and Full HD TV and that it might be detectable at closer viewing distances, and warped that into a strange argument about resolution which I've never been interested in, to only suit your own resolution pedantism. Something which the professionals, whom you regard, clearly disagree with you with.

Again your unsubstantiated opinion.

Even the pro review sites rate HD Ready plasmas higher. And everyone I've spoken to who has gone to test TVs in a proper viewing environment attests to the same facts. Tons of posts on this forum about it too by people who've done comparisons. All of these examples complement each other and only reinforce what the pro's and myself say about the resolution and viewing distance conundrum.

Relative to their scope of their own experience. If you havent experienced better, what you have will seem like the best possible.

That may be so if they sit close.

That's why opinion of professional reviewers with breadth of in-depth experience covering the enitre spectrum of whats avaliable are the only credible source of unbiased opinion.

Could not agree more.

Yes, I'd like to see recent model specific reviews/opinion which indicated purchasing a HD-Ready TV these days is a wiser, superior option to comparible FHD models. And generic information taken out of context doesnt count.

http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-resolution/?tag=rb_content;contentNav

 

[JerryMungo]

These daily deals are normally a rip off most times...but this deal is cheap, as a quick internet search has the cheapest price at R9k. This one is going for R7999. Thought someone might be looking?



http://www.24hoursonly.co.za

Nice... but Delivery outside of Gauteng >R400 And it doesn't matter if it's a 40" TV or a laptop. That Lenovo on the site is pretty decent. 4Gb RAM, 500Gb HDD, Nvidia / Intel switchable graphics, i3 2nd gen. R4300. They would have a sale today if I didn't have to fork out R400 to ship the thing.

That Bravia is very nice but I can't convince the missus to replace a fairly new TV with one of those right now lol.

 

[PostmanPot]

Nice... but Delivery outside of Gauteng >R400 And it doesn't matter if it's a 40" TV or a laptop. That Lenovo on the site is pretty decent. 4Gb RAM, 500Gb HDD, Nvidia / Intel switchable graphics, i3 2nd gen. R4300. They would have a sale today if I didn't have to fork out R400 to ship the thing.

That Bravia is very nice but I can't convince the missus to replace a fairly new TV with one of those right now lol.

Nice deal on the laptop! Sure these guys would appreciate it - http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/114036-Hardware-Bargains/.

 

[Roman4604]

... Pot waffle ...

Getting really boring for most to wade through the waffle you keep regurgitating to justify aged HD-Ready TVs. If you've resigned yourself to sticking with legacy fidelity standards, fine they do a nice job with low grade content.

If your ambition however is to get the highest grade visual fidelity experience that your money will allow, these relics have no place, as confirmed by the two concuring reviewer's opinions provided.

http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-resolution/?tag=rb_content;contentNav

Generic guidelines which you twist by assuming everyone must be watching from a distance where FHD is not percievable to most (will vary according to viewer). Still waiting for a specific HD-Ready TV review which recommends them today with the same gusto as you do.

PS: Coincidently was just watching the latest episode of HD Nation. Check out Rob Heron's (top calibrator) opinion from 4:30 ... http://revision3.com/hdnation/network-pc-tv-tuners

 

[DuncanCT]

40" LED or CCFL advice please...

I'm looking at a second TV and have seen these two...

Sony 40cx520 = R5k @ Makro
Sony 40ex520 = R6k @ Game

I have an irrational Sony bias.

What else is out there at 40" 5k to 6k range?

Is it worth finding something that passes the 4:4:4 chroma sampling?

Anyone????

 

[Roman4604]

I have an irrational Sony bias.

What else is out there at 40" 5k to 6k range?

Sony havent really been coming to the party lately. Dont think there are any/many 2012 models out or coming.

So you'll have to chose from the above 2011 models, neither of which were highly rated. For the same money you'll find better 2012 models from other vendors e.g. Samsung UA40EH5300.

PS whats going to be plugged into it?

 

[PostmanPot]

Getting really boring for most to wade through the waffle you keep regurgitating to justify aged HD-Ready TVs. If you've resigned yourself to sticking with legacy fidelity standards, fine they do a nice job with low grade content.

HD Ready TVs need no justification as long as there is a viewing distance which exceeds the distance at which most people are able to differentiate HD sources, usually about 1.5-2 times the TV's diagonal. That works out at about 1.5m for 32" and 2m for 40", etc. Arguably unreasonable viewing distances in most homes.

If sitting close and mainly 1080 content then no problem as I've mentioned time and again. And once again I have a Full HD LCD TV to compare with so I've resigned myself in no such way like you suggest. It's only confirmed what the pro's have said all along about resolution.

Remember this?

If your ambition however is to get the highest grade visual fidelity experience that your money will allow, these relics have no place, as confirmed by the two concuring reviewer's opinions provided.

That's not true, firstly they are not relics, secondly they do a fine job when there is enough viewing distance. If sitting close, within the range discussed to differentiate HD resolutions, then I have nothing to argue against that, never did, and would always advise FHD.

There is no point just simply getting a FHD TV because HD PVR broadcasts in 1080i, if you sit far away. Example my plasma creams most LCDs I've seen at SD and HD, because I sit 3.5m+, so I cannot benefit from higher than 720p resolutions at that distance considering screen size, and factors like sheer picture quality, contrast, colours and motion are still observed, from that longer distance. Sure I would not have gone for it if I was sitting 2m as I've explained, and I've attested that I notice 1080i on Full HD when sitting closer, who doesn't.

Your arguments all assume that people sit within the suggested viewing distances. Unfortunately that is not the case and you have to accept the role distance plays (which I have no doubt you do). Once again a bigger screen that is HD ready will be of more benefit to longer viewing distances, than going with a smaller 1080p LCD just because of its resolution.

Generic guidelines which you twist by assuming everyone must be watching from a distance where FHD is not percievable to most (will vary according to viewer). Still waiting for a specific HD-Ready TV review which recommends them today with the same gusto as you do.

I've never assumed that, I've simply tried to show you that not everyone sits close. You're the one assuming here, and all your arguments, as true as they are, revolve around that assumption. Your assumption would lead to a dissatisfactory experience if people are led to buying smaller FHD when sitting far away.

PS: Coincidently was just watching the latest episode of HD Nation. Check out Rob Heron's (top calibrator) opinion from 4:30 ... http://revision3.com/hdnation/network-pc-tv-tuners

Will have a look later.

 

[PostmanPot]

Sony havent really been coming to the party lately. Dont think there are any/many 2012 models out or coming.

So you'll have to chose from the above 2011 models, neither of which were highly rated. For the same money you'll find better 2012 models from other vendors e.g. Samsung UA40EH5300.

PS whats going to be plugged into it?

+1

Sony has a 1 year warranty. Compared to LG and Samsung with 2 year. Would be irrational indeed going for the Sony IMO, unless you specifically need Bravia Sync or the minor internet capabilities or something.

If size isn't an issue, there's the Samsung LA46D550 CCFL-LCD for R5,999.

 

[Roman4604]

Remember this?

How could we all forget, you regurgitate it at every opportunity, never mind that it simplistic and does not encompass all aspects related to viewing distance.

Remember this one http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_3.html , a far more intelligent analysis of viewing distance ...

the three most important factors you will need to take into account when considering screen size and viewing distance are: pixel structure, personal taste, and the source material you will typically view

 

[PostmanPot]

How could we all forget, you regurgitate it at every opportunity, never mind that it simplistic and does not encompass all aspects related to viewing distance.

Remember this one http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_3.html , a far more intelligent analysis of viewing distance ...

All guides are generalised and simplistic. Bottom line is that higher resolution is of no benefit from longer viewing distances to the majority of people. That's why when advising it's obviously best to understand all the personal details, instead of assuming everyone is a videophile who sits close and should only consider FHD. By all means let all the nuances be explained. Exactly what I did if you go back to the post which irked you for some odd reason.