LED vs Plasma

Space_Chief said:
Yes I'm referring to the motion aspect too. It just looks bad.
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How, CRTs do not suffer from the main two issues that affect LCD/LED & Plasma, blur & judder.

Counter intuitively the picture with the smoothest motion is the one thats displayed from the shortest period of time. Has to do with the brain's image retention memory. With a CRT you are actually watching a blank/black screen for 80%+ of the time during each frame, but due to the rapid succession of frames your brain perceives seamless motion. The important part is that the blank periods reset the brain's image memory.

Cinema projectors (analogue & digital) use the same principal, as do CMR & FFD, to a greater degree in higher end models. The engineering challenge is to maintain overall image brightness, the brief period when the actual image is shown in each frame has to be extremely bright to counteract the blank/black periods.
 
Where does my 60hz Samsung P2770 LCD stand in all of this? According to theory, is it good or bad for high-speed movie scenes and gaming?
 
Bl1zz4rd said:
Where does my 60hz Samsung P2770 LCD stand in all of this? According to theory, is it good or bad for high-speed movie scenes and gaming?
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Well theory is one thing, vendor implementation is another, so results will vary by make, model and capabilities.
 
Roman4604 said:
How, CRTs do not suffer from the main two issues that affect LCD/LED & Plasma, blur & judder.

Counter intuitively the picture with the smoothest motion is the one thats displayed from the shortest period of time. Has to do with the brain's image retention memory. With a CRT you are actually watching a blank/black screen for 80%+ of the time during each frame, but due to the rapid succession of frames your brain perceives seamless motion. The important part is that the blank periods reset the brain's image memory.

Cinema projectors (analogue & digital) use the same principal, as do CMR & FFD, to a greater degree in higher end models. The engineering challenge is to maintain overall image brightness, the brief period when the actual image is shown in each frame has to be extremely bright to counteract the blank/black periods.
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Right. Except overtly smooth movement with and without blurring looks bad for feature film shot on film. No matter how good it is, it looks bad. It's too smooth.

Secondly, motion blur is natural, so eliminating that, makes the picture look strange.
 
Space_Chief said:
Secondly, motion blur is natural, so eliminating that, makes the picture look strange.
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Movies have just the right amount of blur added in post-production to counteract their slow 24p frame rate. Its the cinematographer that should control blur, not the display technology.
 
Roman4604 said:
Movies have just the right amount of blur added in post-production to counteract their slow 24p frame rate. Its the cinematographer that should control blur, not the display technology.
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Exactly.

So faithfulness of reproduction is what the display should be about.
 
OK, so now that the two of you have agreed, what's the point in TV manufacturers coming in and attempting to "combat" motion blur with features such as 'auto motion plus'? If my 60hz PC LCD does perfectly fine for fast-paced things, why is there this business about 60, 120 and 240hz being too slow and creating the need for intervention in order to provide a smooth picture?

I just don't get it.
 
Bl1zz4rd said:
OK, so now that the two of you have agreed, what's the point in TV manufacturers coming in and attempting to "combat" motion blur with features such as 'auto motion plus'? If my 60hz PC LCD does perfectly fine for fast-paced things, why is there this business about 60, 120 and 240hz being too slow and creating the need for intervention in order to provide a smooth picture?

I just don't get it.
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It may be to eliminate motion blur caused by the panel itself. But why the excessive rates? I think it's marketing. or maybe it is for video gaming applications = consoles, and new "SMART TV" gaming.

Best is to self-evaluate the technology yourself. Go to a showroom and see what it looks like. Bring a PS3 or an iPad and play your favourite movies/games/videos (for TV made productions/sports) and see whether you like what you see.
 
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I watched a Samsung video now and it said that you can just go into "Picture options" in the settings menu and turn auto motion plus off. The host mentioned that doing so doesn't turn off the internal 120 or 240hz processors.

So... AMP aside, what's the point of having faster processors? Why not just 60hz? Why not the same as my Samsung LCD? Why not zoidberg?
 
I love my LCD/LED Samsungs always better than my friends Sony Plasma in colour and everything else.
 
Bl1zz4rd said:
I watched a Samsung video now and it said that you can just go into "Picture options" in the settings menu and turn auto motion plus off. The host mentioned that doing so doesn't turn off the internal 120 or 240hz processors.

So... AMP aside, what's the point of having faster processors? Why not just 60hz? Why not the same as my Samsung LCD? Why not zoidberg?
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Probably because computing is becoming so cheap, they can implement this easily.

More images you can put, and more blank frames you can interpolate between them, as Roman said, the less blur your image can have. But is it noticeable?

For me filmed productions look bad when they're "smoothed out" with all these extra technologies. Sports/TV/games may on the other hand benefit.
 
ichigo said:
I love my LCD/LED Samsungs always better than my friends Sony Plasma in colour and everything else.
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Sony's not famous for good plasma. LCD (aka LED) is their forte.

Note that "LED" is a misnomer. The backlight is an LED backlight providing a better gamut / contrast, but it's still LCD.

What you want is OLED/AMOLED technology.
 
Bl1zz4rd said:
OK, so now that the two of you have agreed, what's the point in TV manufacturers coming in and attempting to "combat" motion blur with features such as 'auto motion plus'? If my 60hz PC LCD does perfectly fine for fast-paced things, why is there this business about 60, 120 and 240hz being too slow and creating the need for intervention in order to provide a smooth picture?

I just don't get it.
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Because your TN (fast response) monitor is designed to handle one type of main input, 60Hz progressive from a PC GPU. LED TVs on the other hand are designed for a multitude of different input frequencies, formats & content types.

You generally wont find the same features on purpose built monitors as there are other/cheaper was of achieving decent motion handling for their singular purpose.
 
Space_Chief said:
Note that "LED" is a misnomer. The backlight is an LED backlight providing a better gamut / contrast, but it's still LCD.
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Physically yes, but there is need for differentiation from a capability perspective.

Many newer features like (local) dimming & stobing (for high CMR) are not achievable with CCFL backlight tubes, they require the high response times & brightness of LED back/edge lighting.
 
Space_Chief - I don't like the smoothness either. It crosses a line and enters a realm where everything appears unnatural. I'm accustomed to the unprocessed images and I hope I can get a TV where there either isn't any or if there is, it can be manually deactivated. Many people say that they get used to the motion tech, but I don't really want to, and it may mess up my watching things on occasion on my PC monitor, which doesn't have CMP.

Interesting that you mention gaming being better with the processing. It actually isn't. The time it takes to process actually creates input lag. For FPS, this would be hateful. I actually can't think of a single circumstance where I'd choose to turn AMP on.

Good on you for noting that LED is not true LED, but merely a backlight, or side-light, in the case of more expensive screens. There is, as Roman4604 mentioned, local dimming tech, but this is rare, has a halo effect, and still miles away from competing with plasma, which has millions. The blacks on plasma are amazing as a result.

Roman4604 - Are LED TVs IPS?
 
Bl1zz4rd said:
I don't like the smoothness either. It crosses a line and enters a realm where everything appears unnatural. I'm accustomed to the unprocessed images and I hope I can get a TV where there either isn't any or if there is, it can be manually deactivated. Many people say that they get used to the motion tech, but I don't really want to, and it may mess up my watching things on occasion on my PC monitor, which doesn't have CMP.

Interesting that you mention gaming being better with the processing. It actually isn't. The time it takes to process actually creates input lag. For FPS, this would be hateful. I actually can't think of a single circumstance where I'd choose to turn AMP on.

Good on you for noting that LED is not true LED, but merely a backlight, or side-light, in the case of more expensive screens. There is, as Roman4604 mentioned, local dimming tech, but this is rare, has a halo effect, and still miles away from competing with plasma, which has millions. The blacks on plasma are amazing as a result.
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The "soap opera" effect is rather annoying yes. I would assume that one could disable the motion blurring manually on most TV's?

Are LED TVs IPS?
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Not all, but yes, there are a few.
 
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