legal advice needed

These attorneys are snakes. It does seem like you will have to pay for the COC. They always do this, they tie the sellers hands into the deal before they give the cost of the COC. Often the estate agents, attorneys, and COC service company work together to get the max payment out of the seller. Then brown envelopes are passed under the table in the name of referral payments. They hope the seller will not care since the seller is getting a large sum in the sale. It seems like all you can really do is to redo the COC quotation with your own choice of COC company, but then you will still have to pay the quotation fees of the quotation that was already done. Snakes `R Them.
 
A property can't be transferred if there are missing compliance certificates, it's as simple as that. No conveyancer would even submit the transfer documents unless the compliance certificates were valid. Either the property was never transferred, or the compliance certificates were supplied to the deeds office without your or the buyers knowledge.
 
deweyzeph said:
A property can't be transferred if there are missing compliance certificates, it's as simple as that. No conveyancer would even submit the transfer documents unless the compliance certificates were valid. Either the property was never transferred, or the compliance certificates were supplied to the deeds office without your or the buyers knowledge.
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It was never transferred, the contract will state the COCs must be done upon transfer. The seller must pay for the COCs. A seller must never allow the agent to choose the attorney or COC service companies. They work together and inflate the price of the COC, and then they give each other "referral fees". It is a form of corruption, but this is the norm.
 
Benedict A55h0le not said:
It was never transferred, the contract will state the COCs must be done upon transfer. The seller must pay for the COCs. A seller must never allow the agent to choose the attorney or COC service companies. They work together and inflate the price of the COC, and then they give each other "referral fees". It is a form of corruption, but this is the norm.
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COCs are done before the transfer, often months before the transfer. They can't be done "upon" transfer because legally the transfer cannot take place until the COCs are complete. Also I've never heard of an estate agent choosing the conveyancer or the COC service company. By convention in South Africa that is usually the seller's prerogative, unless stated otherwise on the OTP. If the seller is dumb enough to allow the estate agent to choose the conveyancer or COC company then they deserve whatever is coming to them.
 
deweyzeph said:
COCs are done before the transfer, often months before the transfer. They can't be done "upon" transfer because legally the transfer cannot take place until the COCs are complete. Also I've never heard of an estate agent choosing the conveyancer or the COC service company. By convention in South Africa that is usually the seller's prerogative, unless stated otherwise on the OTP. If the seller is dumb enough to allow the estate agent to choose the conveyancer or COC company then they deserve whatever is coming to them.
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It could be months for the transfer to happen, but by then there is no going back by the seller. Estate agents always offer to choose the attorney and people who do the COCs as "good service" to the seller. So the seller gives the agent consent to choose them. It`s all part of a plan to get the most money out of the seller, and then referral fees are paid. The point being in this case, the transfer has not been done, the seller must still have the COCs done. It seems clear cut, getting an attorney is going to be another major expense.

Edit: The agent will also get the contract signed before the COCs are done.
 
What happened to me was that I got a bill of R15000 to get the plumbing COC done. This was after the contract was signed. It was all managed by the agent, the ringleader of the snakes. I told the agent to show me were I gave consent for her to choose the plumber. She said I gave verbal consent. I refused the quotation and then the attorney tried to make me pay the quotation fee, she said she is going to deduct it from the sale. I said show me where I gave consent, and I reported her the the board of attorneys. She then was forced not to deduct the quotation fee from the sale, and my own plumber gave my house a COC at no cost with no repairs needed. Saved me R15k.
 
paap said:
but the attorney firm has withheld our last bond payment in the trust account.

she is determined to award our entire remaining bond money to the new owner otherwise the new owner will sue her firm and likely will win a substantial compensation.
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How does this even work? Your bond payment is the bank’s money.

Where does the attorney even enter into the mix?

But also if you’ve know they’ve held onto this for the past four years surely none of this is any surprise?

This whole thing sounds dodgy as hell from the word go.
 
1. Does your Deed of Sale / OTP state that you must supply the buyer with a CoC? If not, then it is not your problem he must get his own CoC.

2. If it states that you must supply the CoC then prescription may have nullified their claim after 3 years.

3. It is not a Deeds Office requirement to have a CoC, they don't give one **** if there is one.

4. The buyers are trying their luck, if you get a letter from a lawyer then go get your own lawyer.

PS: Why is the transferring attorney handling your bond payments?
 
bokka1 said:
1. Does your Deed of Sale / OTP state that you must supply the buyer with a CoC? If not, then it is not your problem he must get his own CoC.

2. If it states that you must supply the CoC then prescription may have nullified their claim after 3 years.

3. It is not a Deeds Office requirement to have a CoC, they don't give one **** if there is one.

4. The buyers are trying their luck, if you get a letter from a lawyer then go get your own lawyer.

PS: Why is the transferring attorney handling your bond payments?
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You all misunderstand, he is receiving money from the buyer`s bond repayments. Normally the OTP will state that you must supply the buyer with the COCs before transfer. He is still the legal owner. There is probably an occupational rent stated in the contract, as all contracts have it. Legally the buyer is renting the property until transfer, so the buyer must still supply the COCs. I would not get a lawyer, it is going to cost a lot more.
 
Benedict A55h0le not said:
You all misunderstand, he is receiving money from the buyer`s bond repayments. Normally the OTP will state that you must supply the buyer with the COCs before transfer. He is still the legal owner. There is probably an occupational rent stated in the contract, as all contracts have it. Legally the buyer is renting the property until transfer, so the buyer must still supply the COCs. I would not get a lawyer, it is going to cost a lot more.
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A CoC is not a requirement for a transfer.
 
Benedict A55h0le not said:
You all misunderstand, he is receiving money from the buyer`s bond repayments. Normally the OTP will state that you must supply the buyer with the COCs before transfer. He is still the legal owner. There is probably an occupational rent stated in the contract, as all contracts have it. Legally the buyer is renting the property until transfer, so the buyer must still supply the COCs. I would not get a lawyer, it is going to cost a lot more.
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1) You're right about there being a COC requirement to be provided by the seller in deeds of sale (contract).

We're not sure if after major changes have been done to the wirings, it's still fair or doable for the seller to conduct a COC.

2)There's no occupational rent; he is the new owner after the transfer.

It's like the seller didn't receive the full purchasing money on the day of transfer, and the title deed is kept by the attorney firm.

At the time, the buyer had up to 90% of the purchasing price in his bank account.

So, for the remaining 10% of the purchasing price, he did a private mortgage bond registered against the title deed.

We feel it's like a bank mortgage loan, except in our case it's the seller offering the loan in place of a bank, and an attorney firm acts like a keeper to hold the buyer's title deeds for the interest of the seller until all the bond payments are paid off.(remaining 10% purchasing price paid to seller)

3)there's no real estate agent involved, the buyer came to ask the seller if he is interested in selling his property.
 
paap said:
1) You're right about there being a COC requirement to be provided by the seller in deeds of sale (contract).

We're not sure if after major changes have been done to the wirings, it's still fair or doable for the seller to conduct a COC.

2)There's no occupational rent; he is the new owner after the transfer.

It's like the seller didn't receive the full purchasing money on the day of transfer, and the title deed is kept by the attorney firm.

At the time, the buyer had up to 90% of the purchasing price in his bank account.

So, for the remaining 10% of the purchasing price, he did a private mortgage bond registered against the title deed.

We feel it's like a bank mortgage loan, except in our case it's the seller offering the loan in place of a bank, and an attorney firm acts like a keeper to hold the buyer's title deeds for the interest of the seller until all the bond payments are paid off.(remaining 10% purchasing price paid to seller)

3)there's no real estate agent involved, the buyer came to ask the seller if he is interested in selling his property.
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The OTP states that the seller must provide a COC. It was nice of them to let you do the COC the 1st time, you should have listened to them and have it done then. You did not have it done initially, so now it has to be done long after the buyer took occupation. It was in your best interest to do it sooner, but you delayed. Is the buyer admitting doing to the electrical changes? Do you have evidence of the changes made? You can lawyer up and try to fight this, but you failed to get the COC, so the attorney can legally pay for the COCs to be done from the sale money.
 
Benedict A55h0le not said:
What happened to me was that I got a bill of R15000 to get the plumbing COC done. This was after the contract was signed. It was all managed by the agent, the ringleader of the snakes. I told the agent to show me were I gave consent for her to choose the plumber. She said I gave verbal consent. I refused the quotation and then the attorney tried to make me pay the quotation fee, she said she is going to deduct it from the sale. I said show me where I gave consent, and I reported her the the board of attorneys. She then was forced not to deduct the quotation fee from the sale, and my own plumber gave my house a COC at no cost with no repairs needed. Saved me R15k.
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for the last two weeks we're facing a similar situation except our bill for firm's coc quotation is at R59000, same amount as the remainder of sellers sale's money that was withheld by the firm. even now the firm granted the seller to do his owns coc quotation the estimated coc should still be huge.
 
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