legal advice needed

[paap]

You still haven't explained how the transfer was able to go through the deeds office without the COC.

That's the one million dollar question I have been asking every month for the past five years.

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

You still haven't explained how the transfer was able to go through the deeds office without the COC.

You don't need a COC, that is a stipulation in an OTP which if agreed upon has to be fulfilled. No difference if I wrote in an OTP that I want the stove to remain in place or a washing machine or couch etc. Please stop confusing this man.

• Are you telling me I cannot buy a building that is half built? or a 100 year old farm house?

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

That's the one million dollar question I have been asking every month for the past five years.

With this regard that in your OTP it stated that an electrical certificate must be provided, then the onus is on the conveyancing attorney who was handling your transfer to "tick that off the list" before they submit all their documentation to the deeds office.

How much money is this transferring attorney withholding from you out of interest?

I am still confused as to who owns this property <-- this means who's name is it in at the deeds office?

 

[Grubscrew]

Sounds like an instalment sale or rent to buy agreement. So the property is still in the seller's name and they are about to start with the transfer process, hence needing a CoC, buyer stayed in the property and made changes and the seller doesn't agree that he has to pay for the property to be brought up to standards...

I could be wrong, skim read most of the thread.

 

[paap]

With this regard that in your OTP it stated that an electrical certificate must be provided, then the onus is on the conveyancing attorney who was handling your transfer to "tick that off the list" before they submit all their documentation to the deeds office.

How much money is this transferring attorney withholding from you out of interest?

I am still confused as to who owns this property <-- this means who's name is it in at the deeds office?

59k

the new owner owns the property that's what we were told. transfer took place five years ago

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

How can the COC quote be R59k and this transferring attorney have exactly R59k of yours as well?

Coincidence?

Can you please post the COC quote for the repair work, you can omit what you like, I just want to see the breakdown for what they are wanting to charge you.

 

[bwana]

Is the OP certain the transferring attorney still has the R59k owed...

Another recent thread:

Conveyancers registered house without required compliance certificate

Hi everyone! I recently purchased a small house in Cape Town. After moving in, we noticed that in the bathroom and while showering, we were receiving fairly large electric shocks - which was a huge concern. Our electrician and security company determined that the cause is the electric fence...

mybroadband.co.za

 

[paap]

How can the COC quote be R59k and this transferring attorney have exactly R59k of yours as well?

Coincidence?

Can you please post the COC quote for the repair work, you can omit what you like, I just want to see the breakdown for what they are wanting to charge you.

sorry,i don't know how to edit.
i am currently in that city in a hotel.

i drove 500km this morning to this city to perform a coc quotation for this property. i wake up at 1am today.

but i can type it out :

rewiring material cost 39k
3 phase coc 2,5k x 3 7,5k
2 DB boards anew 2,5k x2 5k
labour 7,5k
total 59k

it's a single floor neibourhood grocery shop.
storefront 200m2
and 80m2 for warehouse,toilet and kitchen.

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

sorry that quote off hand is ridiculous... R39k for wiring, a 4mm house wire which is double needed for a 100m roll is R1,300. He's literally quoted you for 3km of wiring!?

what city are you in?

 

[Hazy_Living@79]

Bra, I am an attorney and I'm confused AF.

Who is the buyer? Who is the seller? And what is your role in all of this?

I think Bokka mentioned the "new" owners claim may have prescribed.

If the attorney is avoiding your call, it may be because they are trying to avoid a negligence claim. Send correspondence to them that you are referring a complaint to the LPC due to their avoidance and the manner in which they are handling this matter, and GO CONSULT ANOTHER ATTORNEY.

 

[Kosmik]

59k

the new owner owns the property that's what we were told. transfer took place five years ago

Then it is done. You cannot be liable for a COC after five years and they cannot withhold payment for a transaction that was completed five years ago. ( What is being paid ). Your story , does not tallyy with what you THINK or UNDERSTAND it to be.

The occupational rent angle does as that would be the only way you would still be paying a bond, have a conveyancer involved and be liable for the COC.

 

[Sensorei]

Your attorney is assuming you are too scared of them to do what you should have done already, which is threaten them with a lawsuit.

A COC isn't required by a Deeds office to effect transfer of ownership, but that's besides the point. Your attorney was legally responsible to ensure that contractual legal obligations of the OTP were met before proceeding with the transfer of the property.

They messed up here. Case closed.

For an extra few nails in their coffin, do you still have access to your old emails where (twice) you instructed the attorney to get the COC done?

 

[RedViking]

Attorneys and Agents. They have a lot in common.

 

[Kosmik]

Your attorney is assuming you are too scared of them to do what you should have done already, which is threaten them with a lawsuit.

A COC isn't required by a Deeds office to effect transfer of ownership, but that's besides the point. Your attorney was legally responsible to ensure that contractual legal obligations of the OTP were met before proceeding with the transfer of the property.

They messed up here. Case closed.

For an extra few nails in their coffin, do you still have access to your old emails where (twice) you instructed the attorney to get the COC done?

Indeed, they failed to execute the transaction. Also if work was done to the property by the "new owner", most OTP's would have a clause excluding or disallowing alterations pre-transfer.

You can hold the attorney's liable for failure to action which is a breach of trust.

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

Tell the conveyancer you will be meeting with the LSSA & LPC to discuss the matter. No lawyer wants to get a black mark against their names from these people. The LPC can apply to the high court to remove a lawyer permanently so they can never practice again.

Start here :

Complaints

www.lssa.org.za

 

[Hazy_Living@79]

Tell the conveyancer you will be meeting with the LSSA & LPC to discuss the matter. No lawyer wants to get a black mark against their names from these people. The LPC can apply to the high court to remove a lawyer permanently so they can never practice again.

Start here :

Complaints

www.lssa.org.za

LSSA is a member organisation, LPC is the regulator of legal practitioners. If OP is going the complaints route, he should go through the LPC.

 

[bokka1]

That's simply not true. COC's are a legal requirement mandated by national law or in some cases municipal law, they cannot be contracted into or out of. The deeds office will not process a transfer without them, whether it's in the OTP or not.

Trust me, a CoC is not a Deeds Office requirement.

What gets lodged at the Deeds Office are the following:

1. The new Title Deed.
2. The old Title Deed.
3. The Rates Clearance Certificate.
4. The Power of Attorney.
5. The Transfer Duty receipt.
6. Form LLL with all the purchaser's details.

The Deeds Office don't care about CoC's.

Source: My 28 years experience as a conveyancer.

 

[Scooby_Doo]

Trust me, a CoC is not a Deeds Office requirement.

What gets lodged at the Deeds Office are the following:

1. The new Title Deed.
2. The old Title Deed.
3. The Rates Clearance Certificate.
4. The Power of Attorney.
5. The Transfer Duty receipt.
6. Form LLL with all the purchaser's details.

The Deeds Office don't care about CoC's.

Source: My 28 years experience as a conveyancer.

Why do we bother with a CoC then?

 

[bokka1]

Why do we bother with a CoC then?

It is a Municipal requirement, in the City of Cape Town they require a Plumbing Certificate too but in all the surrounding Municipalities it is not a requirement.

But you don't have to lodge the CoC's anywhere.

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

It is a Municipal requirement, in the City of Cape Town they require a Plumbing Certificate too but in all the surrounding Municipalities it is not a requirement.

But you don't have to lodge the CoC's anywhere.

so then what happens if I am buying this? Do I need an electrical COC or plumbing certificate?