Lesbian survives hate crime stabbing

[porchrat]

Back from lunch... quick point, then I'm back to work

A person can be genetically inclined to have angina attacks. The attacks themselves can be onset by stress. A person to some degree can learn to gain more control over their mental ability to avoid and avert stress, hence a person can exersice dominion over their physical predisposition to angina attacks. An angina attack manifests itself physically in the dilation of blood vessels among other things, by mentally averting stress and avoiding it by choice, a person can actually live a healthy life, free of the physical ailment of angina. Some may be better at it, some practise harder at it, although the predisposition to angina is genetic (in many cases), overcoming it can actually be a choice to some degree.

Now bear in mind that sexual orientation is not entirely physical and genetic in origin, do we all agree that choice is certainly one of the factors (greater or lesser degree, as are the many physical factors)?

Your comparison falls flat on it's face because unlike being able to control your stress you can't control who you find attractive. That is beyond your conscious control... sorry mate. Too bad for you.

 

[porchrat]

Then you will also have to determine how much external influence these animals had. Did pregnant doggy mommy maybe eat a rat that was poisoned by a human?

Just because it occurs in nature, does not just make it natural.

Uh actually yes it does. That is the definition of the word. Duh.

Are you saying that being gay is a disease?
Diabetes is the malfunctioning of one of the organs. What is malfunctioning in gay people? (You equated it to born with a disease, I am just asking)

No. I'm saying I don't understand why you find it difficult to accept that we can be born with one physiological condition but not another. As though that is something special.

No it is very relevant.
It should not allow them to operate freely in public though, but it is still very relevant to this discussion.

Either way the criminals need to be separated from society. The cause for that need for separation therefore doesn't influence the outcome and is irrelevant.

 

[ufis]

Funny that you mention that.

Yes. I knew this would come up.
If you go back in that mom and dad's family tree you will spot some white grandfather or great grandm

As for the rest of your post... I honestly don't even know where to begin, I'll simply leave it at: I choose to be happy.

Feel free to start where you want. And if you are happy, why care what others think?

This is your response to which you were referring I presume:
If this is your notion of how people become homosexual, I presume this same process holds then for people who become heterosexual?

I believe people are naturally heterosexual. It is natural instinct to want to further your specie. But yes, the same process holds for all the various sexual orientations and practices out there.

Side question: Are some people born with a sexual affinity towards animals? Or is the "born with" limited to gender specification?

 

[copacetic]

But anyway, this discussion will go round and round. I still feel that emotional and psychological events in your life is the determining factor for your sexual orientation.

So if I am to understand this correctly, we are all born 'neutral' and then emotional and psychological events determine whether we are gay, straight, or bisexual?

*edit*

I see you've answered my previous post.

 

[ufis]

Uh actually yes it does. That is the definition of the word. Duh.

So I shoot a buffalo. It happens in nature. Therefor it is natural for buffalo to die from bullets?
Or some antelope running free in the wild close to Chernobyl grows 5 legs. Is this natural?

When there is outside influence, it is no longer natural. Which part of nature is not influenced by humans?

No. I'm saying I don't understand why you find it difficult to accept that we can be born with one physiological condition but not another. As though that is something special.

Because I feel that sexual orientation is more covered under psychology than physiology.

Either way the criminals need to be separated from society. The cause for that need for separation therefore doesn't influence the outcome and is irrelevant.

So why are we again debating the cause of homosexuality? By your reasoning it should be irrelevant.

 

[JerryMungo]

Your comparison falls flat on it's face because unlike being able to control your stress you can't control who you find attractive. That is beyond your conscious control... sorry mate. Too bad for you.

Because you said so? I don't think so! You know, you can even find the instinctively unattractive attractive if you look at them differently, human life is way more than pure instinct. Mental conditioning is a reality!

 

[porchrat]

So I shoot a buffalo. It happens in nature. Therefor it is natural for buffalo to die from bullets?

No because the gun didn't come from nature. I really shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Or some antelope running free in the wild close to Chernobyl grows 5 legs. Is this natural?

No because once again radiation from a nuclear power plant does not occur in nature.

When there is outside influence, it is no longer natural.

Yes the homosexuality in animals has no outside influence so no worries there. Homosexuality in mammals has been going ona nd been documented since WAAAAAAAY before we started mucking up the environment on a large scale. So no need to worry it is indeed natural. You can relax now.

Which part of nature is not influenced by humans?

Seriously? You think humans influence every single part of our world? :wtf:

I am not even going to justify that with a response.

Because I feel that sexual orientation is more covered under psychology than physiology.

You can feel whatever you want. The evidence has consistently indicated otherwise.

So why are we again debating the cause of homosexuality? By your reasoning it should be irrelevant.

No because people use the idea that it is a choice to justify the condemnation of people for it. In the case of homosexuality it DOES influence the outcome.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Yes. I knew this would come up.
If you go back in that mom and dad's family tree you will spot some white grandfather or great grandm

But obviously it's not impossible for black parents to have white children or white parents to have black children. Similarly gay kids come from somewhere and it isn't Pink 'n Sparkly land, that's for sure.

Feel free to start where you want. And if you are happy, why care what others think?

Because everyone cares what someone thinks to an extent, however minimal. Small things add up. I've learnt a great deal of tolerance over the years but that doesn't mean I'm 100% immune to feeling hurt when I read about a gay person being assaulted/murdered/tortured/raped/insulted/whatever. Nor am I 100% immune to feeling hurt when someone insists in the fallacious crapola that gay people choose to be gay.

If you want to understand why people are the way they are, you need to understand the facts and not your preferred interpretation of what you perceive. If you are interested in why gay people are gay then go nuts, figure it out, have a ball. But if you start trying to figure out why gay people are gay by thumb-sucking a deduction that they choose to be gay so whatever, then you're already off to a really, really bad start: firstly, because you're misrepresenting the truth and secondly, because you've just said that a gay person chooses to put up with homophobic rhetoric.

I believe people are naturally heterosexual. It is natural instinct to want to further your specie. But yes, the same process holds for all the various sexual orientations and practices out there.

I am naturally gay. Not once, in my entire years of growing up, have I been attracted to women. I have always been gay, I had crushes on boys when I was a kid, I was never, in any way, shape or form "naturally heterosexual."

Here are some facts: I don't want to be a woman, I like being male, I like guys. I don't have a gender identity issue, I am quite happy being male, I just happen to like other males.

Side question: Are some people born with a sexual affinity towards animals? Or is the "born with" limited to gender specification?

Who knows, I'm not attracted to animals so I can't speak on behalf of people who are. However, firstly, I don't see how it could be a consensual relationship in any way so it's already wrong in more ways than just one. Now, if we come across some alien species and people are attracted to them then I don't see a problem

 

[copacetic]

I believe people are naturally heterosexual. It is natural instinct to want to further your specie. But yes, the same process holds for all the various sexual orientations and practices out there.

So all gay people are heterosexuals who were influenced psychologically and emotionally to becoming gay? I'd have to disagree, as would every gay person on the planet, I'd imagine.

Side question: Are some people born with a sexual affinity towards animals? Or is the "born with" limited to gender specification?

Are people born with a sexual affinity towards cars?

Probably not, but this is not really related to the subject at hand.

References to crime and bestiality in this thread already. And people wonder why there's a degree of sensitivity about all this.

 

[porchrat]

Because you said so? I don't think so! You know, you can even find the instinctively unattractive attractive if you look at them differently, human life is way more than pure instinct.

LOL whatever you say weirdo. Go and read up on it if it will help you come to terms with it.

Mental conditioning is a reality!

/dons tinfoil hat.

 

[Lycanthrope]

References to crime and bestiality in this thread already. And people wonder why there's a degree of sensitivity about all this.

Well-said

 

[JerryMungo]

LOL whatever you say weirdo. Go and read up on it if it will help you come to terms with it.


/dons tinfoil hat.

I did and posted a link, did you read it?

 

[Kornhub]

Not completely. An argument that rules out all avenues fails regardless of which side you argue for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
Certainly there are significant environmental influences in many cases. There are way too many subtle influences on our lives to clearly define them. Choices come into play to some degree, other subtle external influences to another degree

Don't know much about genes etc but I am an identical twin and we are very different in many ways,academically,socially etc.

 

[Fazda]

Don't know much about genes etc but I am an identical twin and we are very different in many ways,academically,socially etc.

Thanks so much for mentioning that!

 

[ufis]

No because the gun didn't come from nature. I really shouldn't have to explain this to you.
No because once again radiation from a nuclear power plant does not occur in nature.

Yet the pregnant mommy doggy that "ate the poisoned rat" and now has a gay pup is all natural?

Show me the parts of nature where these gay animals have been observed and I bet there would have been human influence in that area.

Seriously? You think humans influence every single part of our world? :wtf:

Indirectly, yes.

I am not even going to justify that with a response.

My guess is cop out.

You can feel whatever you want. The evidence has consistently indicated otherwise.

Then show me said evidence. Not research that claims, but hard evidence. That is accepted as fact.

No because people use the idea that it is a choice to justify the condemnation of people for it. In the case of homosexuality it DOES influence the outcome.

But if criminals are born that way, it should influence their outcome too. Your assertion that the origin of something is less relevant than the origin of another because of the difference in influence on the outcome is absurd. It is simply not something you want to get into because it does not fit with your opinion.

But obviously it's not impossible for black parents to have white children or white parents to have black children.

For black parents it is impossible.
For 7/8th black parents it is possible.

<snip hissy fit rant>

Have I indicated even once that it is a choice? Or are you just overly sensitive?

Who knows, I'm not attracted to animals so I can't speak on behalf of people who are. However, firstly, I don't see how it could be a consensual relationship in any way so it's already wrong in more ways than just one.

I am not condoning sex with animals. I am merely asking the question: If people can be born attracted to the same gender, can they then be born attracted to animals too? Or is the need to fornicate with animals based on some other factors?
If you can be born gay, surely you can be born horny for animals.

So all gay people are heterosexuals who were influenced psychologically and emotionally to becoming gay? I'd have to disagree, as would every gay person on the planet, I'd imagine.

Everything that happens in your life has an influence on who you are. Why can it not influence your sexual orientation?

Are people born with a sexual affinity towards cars?
Probably not, but this is not really related to the subject at hand.

Of course it is related. If he was born that way, would you find it less silly?

References to crime and bestiality in this thread already. And people wonder why there's a degree of sensitivity about all this.

Well-said

Why is there a need to get sensitive about it? Nobody is drawing any relation between gays and criminals and people poking animals. It is not insinuated that gays are criminals, nor that gays like sex with animals. So what is there to be sensitive about?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Have I indicated even once that it is a choice? Or are you just overly sensitive?

Why is "choosing to be gay" so offensive to gays? Do they feel that it is not a good choice to make?

I'm well-aware that English isn't your primary language but surely you can understand how you have repeatedly insinuated that homosexuality is a choice?

Why is there a need to get sensitive about it? Nobody is drawing any relation between gays and criminals and people poking animals. It is not insinuated that gays are criminals, nor that gays like sex with animals. So what is there to be sensitive about?

What next? - Criminals arguing that they hormones made them do it? - yeah right you still have a choice...

Are we reading the same thread, ufis?

 

[ufis]

I'm well-aware that English isn't your primary language but surely you can understand how you have repeatedly insinuated that homosexuality is a choice?

Did you miss the part where I said:

While some people chose to be gay (I have heard many gay men say "My wife cheated on me so I became gay") I believe for the majority it is simply an emotional and psychological proses that can start from a very young age. Similar to how heterosexual people gain a preference to a specific hair colour or hand full size boobs vs 44HH or skinny vs fuller body.

There I have bolded it for you.
And if you read my posts that is the point I have been making all this time.

Are we reading the same thread, ufis?

Yes we are. You just seem to be overly sensitive about it.
twister's comment in no way insinuates that gays are criminals. He merely makes the point (sarcastically so) that criminals are also then "born like that".

So I still cannot see the reason to be sensitive about criminals and bestiality being mentioned.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Did you miss the part where I said:

There I have bolded it for you.
And if you read my posts that is the point I have been making all this time.

Like this one:

How far can you take the "born like that" theory? Is Malema angry at white folk because he was born like that? Was Hitler born hating Jews from day one? Was I born to like wearing shorts and t-shirts over wearing suits? Was I born to be attracted to my wife over everyone else?

Does this mean we have no choice in our lives? We were born a certain way and that is how we are - no option for change?

Again and again you insinuate that there is choice.

Yes we are. You just seem to be overly sensitive about it.
twister's comment in no way insinuates that gays are criminals. He merely makes the point (sarcastically so) that criminals are also then "born like that".

There is nothing sarcastic about his comments. He has made similar ones before in previous threads. Once again, criminals have the choice to commit a crime or not. Gays do not have the choice to be gay or not. If nothing else, his comments are facetious.

So I still cannot see the reason to be sensitive about criminals and bestiality being mentioned.

/epicfacepalm

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Why do you guys keep feeding it?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Why do you guys keep feeding it?

Good point. Thanks