LFM VOA 25 - Link GS and Ach

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thiartc

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I've been away from wow for about 9 months and came back a while back to these type of msg's in /1

So last night i decided i would actually pug VOA so when i saw this msg i did just that, gave person my GS and my ach and was the invite came.

So here we are in VOA 25, i though if this guy asked GS for VOA then he is serious for a quick kill and we will be in and out in 10 mins.

Lets just say, i didnt know it was possible to whipe in VOA, the guy that invite me had a GS of about 3.5k and he was doing 1.8k dps, we got the kill and loot all round, but now i know why people would ask for GS and Achi in /1 while they setting up a group.

They are normally so useless that they need people with exp just to actually do the instance, so my advice to you, if you are asked for a GS or some crap like that before you get invited to a raid, RUN THE F%^K* AWAY!!
 
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What annoys me though is some fresh dinged 80 joining the raid, and getting the loot. So he sits with a lvl251 or higher item, and the rest blue's and green's. Makes my tits sag. I dont have GS installed though.
 
Gear Score is a necessary evil currently. Who would you prefer?
A : Freshly dinged 80 (3k Gear Score)
B : Badge Geared 80 (4.5k Gear Score)
C : Badge/Raid Geared 80 (5.2k Gear Score)

A : Might have a main with 6500GS and know all the tacts but can only put out a maximum of 2k dps.
B : Might not have a main but can auto attack and still get 2k dps easily. (Hence the achievement requirement)
C : Would take very long to get this GS if just via badges and hence should be better at dps as they know there class at 80 slightly better. If they at this GS normally means they have run ICC a couple of times.

1. So not asking for GS : you get 10 x A's. You will fail and waste of time.
2. So you take a chance and ask for GS 4500+ and achieve, you will prob get alot of B's. Chance of fail but the encounter is doable.
3. Now I Ask for GS of 5400+ and 10 or 25 man achieve. Ill get all C's

So now whos group is likely to succeed? 1, 2 or 3?

In a instance like ICC gear matters regardless of skill. Besides the fact that if you do manage to down 1 boss you are screwed if the grp disbands cause of wipes.

So this is how GS helps. Make your choice. Gear does play a part.
 
I've been back for 6 weeks now, i running with a guild that has 2 teams 11/12 heroic ICC, i just get gear cause people dont need it anymore. I do 25% less dps than the rest of the guys but my GS is 5% less than theirs. I had 3 level 277 within my 1st trip inside ICC. I need a couple of badges for full 5 piece t10 an di bought the cloak and the trinket

my GS is almost 6k - i've killed lk 5 times.
I have almost all the ICC achievements but if i go with a group that is not my guildies the chances are that i would whipe them almost all the time.

The thing is, they've been doing it for a couple of months now and know where to stand and what to do, i run around like a headless chicken. O.k. its getting better now. But still, i'm a nub in the place but my gear and achi does not reflect that.
 
thiartc said:
I've been back for 6 weeks now, i running with a guild that has 2 teams 11/12 heroic ICC, i just get gear cause people dont need it anymore. I do 25% less dps than the rest of the guys but my GS is 5% less than theirs. I had 3 level 277 within my 1st trip inside ICC. I need a couple of badges for full 5 piece t10 an di bought the cloak and the trinket

my GS is almost 6k - i've killed lk 5 times.
I have almost all the ICC achievements but if i go with a group that is not my guildies the chances are that i would whipe them almost all the time.

The thing is, they've been doing it for a couple of months now and know where to stand and what to do, i run around like a headless chicken. O.k. its getting better now. But still, i'm a nub in the place but my gear and achi does not reflect that.
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Good example but who would your raid leader rather take? A freshly dinged 80 or you? You with enough HP to withstand the aoe, with enough DPS to contribute, even though not good at the instance still have experience in it cause you have run it a couple times? Compared to someone who has no experience and cant DPS. Your GS will reflect the differences between you and a fesh 80.
BTW in the gear you listed you should be at 5-6k dps without breaking a sweat especially if you doing ICC herioc which requires a average DPS of say 7-8k dps. While someone with only 5k GS can push out a maximum of 4k DPS. Gearscore is here to stay and till Blizzard implements Looking for Raid is necessary. (If you dont have the gear you cant sign up for the raid) And btw 5% less GS is a huge DPS difference. For example on a paladin with max gear (6200gs) DPS should be anywhere from 10-12k.
 
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dyanamo said:
And btw 5% less GS is a huge DPS difference. For example on a paladin with max gear (6200gs) DPS should be anywhere from 10-12k.
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and dont i know it, if one of the healers decided to do something extra i move down the list - haha.

My 1st night in icc i did 4k dps, after a week it was up to 6k and now i'm touching 9, so i'm getting there and thats not due to my skill but Pornolio spending most of his days teaching me
 
Come on... honestly, how long have you been playing this game ???
Gearscore looks at the item levels and compiles a score... now answer me this (I will use your examples)
Warrior, pretty much recently dinged 80, ran a few instances, got some drops, but oh dear, some of the drops are tanking items, now Mr. Dynamo is advertising for a pug run... gief 4k GS... now scrub warrior, sees, oh hell, only way I will make his 4k GS is to use my tanking items and dps items mixed and matched.
So now you sit with a warrior in your raid, he has 50% dps gear and 50% tanking gear, but hey at least he has 5k GS... he MUST be good. Now Mr. warrior does 2k scrub damage... even with his 4k GS.

Lets take another example... Mr hunter with loads of shaman spell power mail gear (he was very unlucky in his pugs), at least he makes his 4k GS requirement with his spellpower items... wanna guess what his dps is like...

Another example where GS fails... how can you rely on a mod that punishes a player for using a ilevel200 trinket which happens to be insanely good... that same mod will tell you a tanking trinket of ilevel264 is better than a Armor penetration trinket of ilevel 200 for a hunter.
Or what about e-bay hunters... gemming to the teeth with strength gems on their ilevel 245 / ilevel264 badge gear....yes there is loads of them... GS FTW
 
Pornolio said:
Come on... honestly, how long have you been playing this game ???
Gearscore looks at the item levels and compiles a score... now answer me this (I will use your examples)
Warrior, pretty much recently dinged 80, ran a few instances, got some drops, but oh dear, some of the drops are tanking items, now Mr. Dynamo is advertising for a pug run... gief 4k GS... now scrub warrior, sees, oh hell, only way I will make his 4k GS is to use my tanking items and dps items mixed and matched.
So now you sit with a warrior in your raid, he has 50% dps gear and 50% tanking gear, but hey at least he has 5k GS... he MUST be good. Now Mr. warrior does 2k scrub damage... even with his 4k GS.

Lets take another example... Mr hunter with loads of shaman spell power mail gear (he was very unlucky in his pugs), at least he makes his 4k GS requirement with his spellpower items... wanna guess what his dps is like...

Another example where GS fails... how can you rely on a mod that punishes a player for using a ilevel200 trinket which happens to be insanely good... that same mod will tell you a tanking trinket of ilevel264 is better than a Armor penetration trinket of ilevel 200 for a hunter.
Or what about e-bay hunters... gemming to the teeth with strength gems on their ilevel 245 / ilevel264 badge gear....yes there is loads of them... GS FTW
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Fact still remains. Would you take a 3000gs or a 6000gs player to a raid? Like everything GS has its weakness but for the MAJORITY of people who pug GS is a godsend. As per some of your examples, people are quick to inspect each other in pugs because they want to finish the raid. One raid instance specific encounter a week remember. I know I do. I normally check everyone who can have gear I want as a default. As per trinket, difference between a ilvl 200 and ilvl 251 is only 50 GS points.

But in the end even a hunter with all STR gems and has 6k GS will do 4x the amount of DPS as a skilled hunter in 4k GS with correct gemming.

Neways for me if I PUG i dont take under 5300gs for ICC 10 man normal. A bit of a over kill but atleast im almost guranteed that the person has been in ICC before and can push out some DPS.
 
I disagree... people rely to much on this mod... they hardly ever inspect people. As long as GS says he is 5k GS... he is good. His dps will be good.
As for the hunter doing 4 x more damage with his strength gems. No way. Absolutely no way. Any hunter that doesnt even know the basics about what stats are good for them, will hardly be in a position to know proper shot rotations. I would take a skilled hunter with 4k GS any day of the week above a hunter with 6k GS and he is gemmed to the teeth in strength gems. Skill > gear
 
Its all relative. Gear does not != skill but without it your skill means nothing. GS helps in this regard. Not ideal but still a benchmark where none is available. Aswell until blizzard implements Raid Tool with gear checks GS will be the number one way of determining whether ur raid will be successful or not.
10 people with 4k GS will not complete any of the ICC 10 man raids no matter how skilled all of them are.

Pornolio I give you a challenge. Advertise in general and trade to do a ToC 25 or lower, only requirement level 80 with skill (Turn off GS if you have it) and can only be PUG people you dont know. Tell me how it goes.
 
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You rely on your mod, I will rely on my knowledge. If I was in a position to get a raid going to TOC25, I would rather inspect the person myself, than relying on a stupid mod that does basic checks, regardless of wheter the information its getting back is relevant or not.

GS is a inaccurate lazy mans tool ... if you choose to use it, its your own stupidity.

I have a challenge for you as well Dynamo... go apply to any high end raiding guild... be sure to put in your application your GS. Would love to see the remarks on the forums you get back from an application.
 
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What Rambo said.
However if you still need a mod to help you with your Pug decisions, at least use this: Elitist Group
This mod at least looks for proper gemming/enchanting and whether you're wearing the correct gear type and not your Dalaran set.


dyanamo said:
But in the end even a hunter with all STR gems and has 6k GS will do 4x the amount of DPS as a skilled hunter in 4k GS with correct gemming.
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I don't know what drugs you're taking but you've got to be taking them anally for them to work that well. That is the biggest load of horse crap I've heard in ages.

Case in point:
My hunter 5.9k GS (thanks to iLvl200 trinket >_< ) MM ArP build
- Sporting all ArP gems: 11605.58 in spreadsheet [current setup]
Dyanamo's suggestion check
- Sporting all Agi gems/chants: 11412.60 in spreadsheet
- Sporting nothing (equivalent of Str gems/chants instead of Agi): 10179.74 in spreadsheet
This is already a 1232.86 loss in DPS just from gems and chants. Then add the fact that this is theoretical DPS which is almost never achieved in a live raid and you'll see an exponential decay in performance. Now just imagine what a mess his rotation is going to be if he already losses 1.2k DPS to bad gemming/chanting choices due to being thrown as a child, nevermind dropped. Trust me, Mr "6k GS Harharhar" 's DPS will very quickly match Mr "4k GS" on the meters, especially since he will probably be a damage meter whore and go ape and get himself killed.

Anyway, ignoring numbers may it be GS or DPS, can you seriously tell me you would take a Strength hunter or a Intellect/Spirit Warrior to a raid with you if he was covered in ICC gear? I think if you did that, you'd kick yourself in the nuts later for being a colossal fool and then would become a troglodyte due to shame.
 
Look I agree GS is BS, however gear does help at times where skill is lacking. To do the above in blues, you got to be near the top skill range at the very least with 100% concentration, and lets not forget, no one in the raid should make mistakes...
 
just remember they used the 15% buff so its ilevel 200 ,act like ilevel 230 , which is still decent though, know allot of people who failed with 245 gear etc.

they are also highly skilled raiders on there mains , so they are damn good players.
 
we had a fight over GS in raid when i got LK's polearm. I used distand land that is a 264 item but has loads of haste and no apr. The other hunter used a 232 sword, i think, with some apr and he said he should get the item because i already have a 264 item.

That just shows the mindset regarding GS, even tough i had the 264 item and gear score wise it was a side move for me and a increase for that dude, dsp wise it was a bigger increase for me than what it was for him.

If people just look a GS they will never get anywhere
 
thiartc said:
we had a fight over GS in raid when i got LK's polearm. I used distand land that is a 264 item but has loads of haste and no apr. The other hunter used a 232 sword, i think, with some apr and he said he should get the item because i already have a 264 item.

That just shows the mindset regarding GS, even tough i had the 264 item and gear score wise it was a side move for me and a increase for that dude, dsp wise it was a bigger increase for me than what it was for him.

If people just look a GS they will never get anywhere
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Agreed.

Standing in Orgrimmar yesterday, waiting for a Random BG to pop up I got like 5 whispers asking me to join ICC25. I told them I am not geared for healing 25man ICC but they all replied "but you have 5.8k GS!"

Yes, that's because I'm in PVP gear.

That's the extent of damage that GS has done, people don't even bother to inspect you any more, they just mouseover your character and see your GS. If it meets their standards then you are eligible to join their raids.

I pugged VoA25 the other day, a 4.5k GS Hunter was 3k DPS over two 5k+ Warlocks. Sadly, he could not beat the DK with Frostmoure, however that's understandable.

GS does not equate to skill. Wish they would invent a Random Raid Finder tool and be done with this hindrance.
 
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