Local DVD pirates busted

Peter selling pirated dvd's is illegal, crime = cops regardless.

Smart comment except who decides a DVD is 'pirated'.

Obviously killboob I know it's illegal, but you have to prove the DVD is pirated and is being sold. Selling of DVDs is not illegal. Selling of DVDs whose copyright is not protected in SA is not illegal either.

To prosecute someone for selling 'pirate dvds' the owner of the IP has to contact the police and lay charges. If an agent of SAFACT determined that those particular DVDs were pirated AND belonged to one of his customer companies then he could summon the police and arrest the suspect and confiscate his stock.

A policeman can't just decide a DVD is pirate. That's not his job and he is not equipped to do it. Secondly, if the DVD belongs to a company not paying protection funds to SAFACT or a local lawyer - nothing will get done either.

Pirate DVDs are not like child pr0n or narcotics. They aren't illegal to begin with. They're just unauthorised DVDs. They're not illegal contraband per se.

I hope you understand now how things work.
 
LOL peter the minute you start selling pirate goods you are a criminal, so while pirate dvd's are not illegal once you start making money off them they become illegal.

Another thing i think these people should be nailed because they are making money off someone's work. I download plenty but i am not making any money off other people's work.

I guess you think someone who steals cellphone's should also be ignored because it is petty theft. Selling other people's work is theft which is a crime. Why do they keep busting people who are making the pirate dvd's? How does that work peter? 50000 copies ready for sale and they bust the people, explain please. I do agree busting the hawkers is pointless they are still selling illegal goods.

No wonder this country is so messed up.
Fail logic there peter.

So i guess peter selling stolen cellphones and cars is also fine in your opinion.
 
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A cop cannot just arrest anybody. There has to be a case filed at the local police station.

That explains a lot. if someone is busy mugging someone, you have to file a case first before they can be arrested. Hopefully by the time the case is filed the mugger is still mugging and can be arrested.
 
That explains a lot. if someone is busy mugging someone, you have to file a case first before they can be arrested. Hopefully by the time the case is filed the mugger is still mugging and can be arrested.

LOL yea no wonder there are so many mugging in this country, no bloody reports are filed before the mugging :D or during the mugging. Must be rather strange getting mugged at gun point while the cops fill out forms before doing anything.
 
LOL peter the minute you start selling pirate goods you are a criminal, so while pirate dvd's are not illegal once you start making money off them they become illegal.

Another thing i think these people should be nailed because they are making money off someone's work. I download plenty but i am not making any money off other people's work.

I guess you think someone who steals cellphone's should also be ignored because it is petty theft. Selling other people's work is theft which is a crime. Why do they keep busting people who are making the pirate dvd's? How does that work peter? 50000 copies ready for sale and they bust the people, explain please. I do agree busting the hawkers is pointless they are still selling illegal goods.

No wonder this country is so messed up.
Fail logic there peter.

So i guess peter selling stolen cellphones and cars is also fine in your opinion.

I think PeterCH was trying to go back to the topic of the morality of intellectual property. I wish more people posted on that thread...

I researched it a bit and found some articles that confirm what PeterCH was saying: Copying IP (Intellectual Property) is not immoral or theft.

Resources:

If you believe in IP, how do you teach others? - Jeffrey A. Tucker
Jeffrey Tucker is the editor of Mises.org
http://mises.org/daily/3864

A note on intellectual property and externalities. - Hardy Bouillon
Hardy Bouillon teaches philosophy at the University of Trier, is Hayek Institute Endowed Guest Professor at the Vienna University of Economics and Business, and is a fellow of the International Centre for Economic Research (ICER) in Turin. His books include Government: Servant or Master? (1993), Libertarians and Liberalism (1997), and Ordered Anarchy (2007).
http://mises.org/daily/3798

{A philosopher and economist disagreeing with the protection of IP}

Mises.org in the context of publishing history. - Jeffrey A. Tucker
Jeffrey Tucker is the editor of Mises.org
http://mises.org/daily/3795

The case against IP: The Concise Guide - Stephan Kinsella
Stephan Kinsella is an attorney in Houston and editor of Libertarian Papers.
http://mises.org/story/3682

{The attorney wrote an article defending Napster}

Patents and Innovation - Stephen Kinsella http://www.stephankinsella.com/about/
This guy is a patent lawyer who makes a living from IP, yet, he disagrees with the concept. Read his CV on the link above.
http://blog.mises.org/archives/007880.asp
 
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Why? Not arguing just would like to know if there is a legal reason for it.

I know that copying and also selling material that is copyrighted under South African Law (Safact I believe) is illegal but why is selling IP in general illegal?

I mean if someone teaches me something and I use that knowledge to teach a group of people and I charge for it is that illegal?

Bleh...this should be moved to the old topic!
 
LOL peter the minute you start selling pirate goods you are a criminal, so while pirate dvd's are not illegal once you start making money off them they become illegal.

Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true.

No, killadoob, it is not illegal. Selling a DVD is not a crime unless you're selling child pr0n on it or state secrets - the former is illegal as is the latter - the latter is called treason. Those are crimes and the medium has nothing to do with the crime - if you sell or give away child pr0n or state secrets on toilet paper you are also committing a crime. Still, someone has to identify the material as that. Selling a DVD on the other hand is not a crime. The only way it can become a crime is if the COPYRIGHT HOLDER files charges. Copyright holders may represent themselves OR they may use an organisation like the BSA or SAFACT or RISA to act on their behalf.
The BSA/SAFACT or RISA will not go after pirates who sell other peoples'/companies copyright works, however. Even you can't go after these people because you can't prove that the pirate does not have rights to resell these DVDs or that they're not legitimate. So if you find eg. JPOP Morning Musume CDs - I doubt many people in SA enjoy MM - who do not have an agent in SA - unless you contact their Japanese rights holder and they authorise you to act on their behalf or pay off RISA, you can huff and puff all you want but those CDs will continue to be sold. RISA/SAFACT/BSA are like the mafia, they only protect the copyright works of companies which pay them protection money. They won't protect my works, they won't protect others' works UNLESS we pay them a subscription fee. In contrast, if someone is giving away or selling contraband (state secrets, bestiality, child pr0n) they will still get hammered by the law as the state acts to prosecute those cases - the state does not automatically get involved in licensing and sale of unauthorized copies' issues.

Another thing i think these people should be nailed because they are making money off someone's work. I download plenty but i am not making any money off other people's work.

It's good that you don't make the laws of this or any other land.

I guess you think someone who steals cellphone's should also be ignored because it is petty theft.

Stealing a phone is called theft, that is definately a crime. Again, someone has to identify it, someone has to first identify their phone is being sold, then they go to the cops and press charges (open a case and make a statement that someone has their phone).

Selling other people's work is theft which is a crime. Why do they keep busting people who are making the pirate dvd's? How does that work peter? 50000 copies ready for sale and they bust the people, explain please. I do agree busting the hawkers is pointless they are still selling illegal goods.

They only bust the people who are making copies of Ster Kinekor or NuMetro licensed DVDs, in other words - their customers.

No wonder this country is so messed up.
Fail logic there peter.

It's not logic - it's the law. I'm explaing to you the law. I can't help it that you lack basic comprehension. 'Nuff said.

Please don't call me Peter. My nick is PeterCH. Never call me Peter again, you are not my friend. Ok? :)

So i guess peter selling stolen cellphones and cars is also fine in your opinion.

Lame. Go hide under a rock.
 
Ok peter

Bare in mind you cannot report me for calling you peter just in case you are thinking about it :D.
 
I think PeterCH was trying to go back to the topic of the morality of intellectual property. I wish more people posted on that thread...

No - that's not it.

I wanted to point out the difference between selling pirate DVDs and selling stolen goods. Selling pirate DVDs requires someone to file charges - that is either the copyright holder OR his agent - an organisation like SAFACT. A movie made by the Romanian Director Christian Mungiu - unless the publisher has negotiated rights in SA - will be pirated - SAFACT will not step in and call the police. A member of the public could call the police but what proof does this member of the public have that this Romanian DVD (a copy of a genuine Romanian DVD) is pirate. The seller can deny it and say that the DVDs are genuine. They may bust them for not passing the DVD through a censor - in the past movies sold to the public had to be rated - maybe that's still the case - but they can't bust them for piracy because there is no proof - unless the Copyright Owner (who has no presence in SA) steps in and says - "Yes these DVDs are FAKE copies. Yes this is an illegal copy." And not any idiot can just say that. Once someone like that comes along - SA Police is obliged to assist them - because SA signed the International Convention on Copyrights (Berne).

On the other hand if you took a DVD and you burned bestality, child pr0n or some state secrets on it - yes that would be illegal automatically - again someone has to identify it first as such/report it.

This is not a moral debate. :)

I also wanted to point out that a police officer can't say a DVD is pirated or not. How does he know that the DVD is not genuine but from a different region or different publisher?
Take2 resells Australian, UK and US DVDs as well as SA releases. Imagine if the police were called by idiots every time someone saw a Region 1 DVD of Star Trek or The Punisher. How would the cops handle the case? They'd ask - are you the right's holder - if not - go away. You could contact SAFACT - SAFACT could check on the DVDs but they won't bother with non-customer DVDs - they handle the big expensive studios - they won't handle something like Mystery Science Theater 3000 from Best Brains Co in Iowa.

And for the clueless posters who patronise and misunderstand, those cell phone charges and NOKIA connections are also protected by Patents and Licenses. They could be just as illegal as those pirate STAR TREK DVDs. Same could go for those toys these Robot vendors sell and other goods. It's not only the music, software or video which is protected by intellectual property rights but designs and patents and specifications. I can't just create a DVD player and stamp the DVD logo on it, without paying a cut to the DVD consortium. I could do that and if someone resold that player - it would be illegal too - but someone would have to prove it.
 
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So peter those okes selling dvd's at robots could be selling legit shyte for 25 bucks?

Yea and a chop shop only work on legit cars :D

Although with our police force they more than likely think they are selling legit stuff.
 
I 100% agree with PeterCH for once and killadoob has probably been in the bottle again and would agree with PeterCH too if he wasn't a argumentative drunk :p
 
So peter those okes selling dvd's at robots could be selling legit shyte for 25 bucks?

Yea and a chop shop only work on legit cars :D

Although with our police force they more than likely think they are selling legit stuff.

Depends what you mean by legit. If you mean packaged by the copyright owners then no. But it is possible to make a perfect copy of the original content. In which case what you are buying is no different from the original packaged content.

If it is a perfect duplicate in every way how is that fake. It does the same thing. Works the same way. Is the same quality. Why is it not as good as the original?

Obviously there are poor copies out there. But you know this when you buy the "fake" DVD's. If you want piece of mind you can choose to buy the original. Its a choice thing, which is up to each individual and not anyone else.
 
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