Local Free... Thoughts?

[stoke]

JayM - how much are IS paying Teklom for local bandwidth consumption currently?

I'm pretty damn sure the answer is zero, which means that IS are ripping us off.
And, if the answer is not zero, then what would the situation be if the answer is zero?

Sure IS have to pay interconnection and infrastructure fee's to telkom currently, but as more and more resources become available on the IS network, as local resources, the who pays whom for the access question starts to get blurred, with IS possibly reaching a point where they can charge teklom for accessing their network because IS have better locally hosted product.

And, if IS cannot survive because the infrastructure costs are too high, well then perhaps the real problem - the high infrastructure costs - should be addressed.

BUT - Charging the average ADSL user flipping international throughput rates for local content is daylight flipping robbery.

Bottom line is - we have already paid for the line, we pay for it every month, we demand to be able to use it. We understand that international throughput is expensive, and we will pay for that seperately, which is only fair.

ISP's need to find more honorable means of making money, like providing community services and such.

 

[JayM]

JayM - how much are IS paying Teklom for local bandwidth consumption currently?.

As far as I know, the peering agreement is bilateral with each party paying half. Which means Telkom actually pays zero, and IS pays a couple of bar a month.

That is just the peering connection. IS also needs to pay for their connectivity to other cities, and the ATM/IPC in order for DSL users to actually reach their network. I don't know how much it is, but it's not zero, and probably millions per month.

I think the infrastructure costs need to be addressed. Like say a 60-70% reduction on all services, including the ones mentioned above. That way all providers will be able to drop prices significantly, which would in turn force the wholesale price from Telkom to drop. Trying to work it the other way round is unfair and not feasible for other ISPs.

 

[bwana]

Doesnt IS already offer 27-28gb inclusively with many of their less expensive accounts? Why not just make it uncapped?

 

[JayM]

Doesnt IS already offer 27-28gb inclusively with many of their less expensive accounts? Why not just make it uncapped?

Because some plonkers will go and use 200gig a month, and this isn't factored into the price. Are you suggesting that it be free, and uncapped?

 

[bwana]

Because some plonkers will go and use 200gig a month, and this isn't factored into the price. Are you suggesting that it be free, and uncapped?

No - inclusive and uncapped as per the regulations.

 

[JayM]

No - inclusive and uncapped as per the regulations.

Well they can make it uncapped then - they'll just have to adjust the price according to usage of their IPC and other circuits to cover costs (and still turn a profit, otherwise what's the point?).

 

[Rocket-Boy]

I have been told on some pretty decent authority that it will be happening from December. The person who told me is busy using an 8mb ADSL2+ line so im guessing they know something...

 

[stoke]

Well they can make it uncapped then - they'll just have to adjust the price according to usage of their IPC and other circuits to cover costs (and still turn a profit, otherwise what's the point?).

Are you trying to convince us that they are charged per byte on the IPC?
Surely that cannot be true, and, surely these regulations mean that it cannot be true.

 

[JayM]

Are you trying to convince us that they are charged per byte on the IPC?
Surely that cannot be true, and, surely these regulations mean that it cannot be true.

They are charged per mbit on IPC. It starts at R11K/mbit/month and goes down the more you buy. Not capping local will mean increased usage (otherwise people wouldn't be asking for it!) - this will lead to more bandwidth on IPC being used - and upgrades will have to be purchased, or the service will degrade. Where will the money for these upgrades come from?

 

[bwana]

Well they can make it uncapped then - they'll just have to adjust the price according to usage of their IPC and other circuits to cover costs (and still turn a profit, otherwise what's the point?).

Sure there is bound to be some adjustment but with the current situation do you believe that everyone with the inclusive local is using it all up even though they're entitled to? Course they arent and neither will they be when its uncapped.

If there are serious "abusers" [sic] then IS isp's can do what overseas ISPs do and warn them and if needs be boot them off.

 

[JayM]

Sure there is bound to be some adjustment but with the current situation do you believe that everyone with the inclusive local is using it all up even though they're entitled to? Course they arent and neither will they be when its uncapped.

If there are serious "abusers" [sic] then IS isp's can do what overseas ISPs do and warn them and if needs be boot them off.

So long as there is a safety net that can be used (but then it's not "uncapped", and they'll be in violation again.), then it should be OK.

I really do feel for the smaller guys who have their own IPC, and have to pay for local diginet access from the big 3 - they will definitely be negatively affected by this.

 

[stoke]

Thanks JayM ... good points.

 

[Praeses]

I would be happy if they made local BW cheaper (like R5/GB) and not let it use international cap.
Uncapped would only cause abuse of the network, killing everybody's speeds. I HATE not getting my full 39kb/s on my adsl line when I download (luckily I usually get it )

 

[JayM]

Well let's see what happens. I'd prefer the blanket discounts on required services as it will ensure fairness to everybody, and still benefit the consumer greatly. I'd really hate for the smaller guys to be driven out of business or to be forced to resell only "tier-1" DSL accounts, because then you end up with only a few, inflexible offerings - and there's certainly no benefit in that.

 

[stoke]

I would be happy if they made local BW cheaper (like R5/GB) and not let it use international cap.
Uncapped would only cause abuse of the network, killing everybody's speeds. I HATE not getting my full 39kb/s on my adsl line when I download (luckily I usually get it )

Praeses, where do you draw the line on "abuse"?

Surely a person with a 4MB line should be allowed to use their line at 100% capacity for more than 30% of the day?

And, on a 4MB line, that means a monthly consumption way past the 40GB mark.

Or, do you really think that the current definition of abuse (more than 30GB a month) is correct?

Surely the network should be upgraded to cope with the increased demand for throughput before the ISP's start offering 4MB lines.

 

[Praeses]

Praeses, where do you draw the line on "abuse"?

Surely a person with a 4MB line should be allowed to use their line at 100% capacity for more than 30% of the day?

And, on a 4MB line, that means a monthly consumption way past the 40GB mark.

Or, do you really think that the current definition of abuse (more than 30GB a month) is correct?

Surely the network should be upgraded to cope with the increased demand for throughput before the ISP's start offering 4MB lines.

It's abuse when the infrastructure starts to struggle -> I don't want my speeds influenced due to poorly planned network allocation. Yes, the infrastructure needs to improve indefinitely but it's most likely not good enough atm. 1 -> 10 billion rand per month profit = not spending enough money (on things like infrastructure) from my POV.

 

[stoke]

It's abuse when the infrastructure starts to struggle -> I don't want my speeds influenced due to poorly planned network allocation. Yes, the infrastructure needs to improve indefinitely but it's most likely not good enough atm. 1 -> 10 billion rand per month profit = not spending enough money (on things like infrastructure) from my POV.

Agree'd.

 

[Soul-Stripper]

The chance of there being international free downloading is more likely than local. I'm starting to think I should move to the USA...8Mbps downstream!