Local WoW server a possibility?

If this does happen, we need to make sure that it's not on the iBurst network. They are amongst the worst-connected networks in the country. Even if they could guarantee some level of performance to their remaining users, they have hopeless peering - only a few Mbps into JINX, and their international links are way below par.

Presumably, though, Blizzard will do a proper investigation, and choose a more appropriate and reliable network - preferably one with a few Gbps of international and local peering.
 
The other point not raised is the fact we don't have proper data centres. Proper meaning 2 independant electricity providers.

That and the redundancy they would require in terms of hosting (internet pipeline as ads mentioned)

Peering server FTW
 
There are a lot of unqualified opinions flying around here. So here's mine :D

No one is forcing anybody to sign up to a local server, so there is no need to act as though you are being cornered against your will.

With that said, I do not understand where all the animosity is coming from?

For the record, iBurst and iGame operate separately. I will not comment on iBurst, but I can say without any doubt that iGame has one of SA's best technical teams.

Gametracker.com rates iGame's Alpha CoD4 server as the best in SA (excluding hardcore). Fact.

There have been a few valid points made however. For example, WoW is getting old and I do wonder if it is too late for something like this. However, I have spoken to iGame about this, and they are fully aware, and are already looking at Blizzard's next MMO. If they can do a good job on a WoW server for two years, then we will almost definitely get a local server next time around.

No offense to you, but IGame is bull****ting. Blizzards next mmo is not going to be out for at least 3 years they are still looking for developers/graphics artists etc.. so for IGame to go and say something so absurd like that is totally ridiculous they just blowing wind out there own asses. And when blizz do release the mmo they wont look at south africa until there is a solid footing within the europe and us sectors.
 
If this does happen, we need to make sure that it's not on the iBurst network. They are amongst the worst-connected networks in the country. Even if they could guarantee some level of performance to their remaining users, they have hopeless peering - only a few Mbps into JINX, and their international links are way below par.

Presumably, though, Blizzard will do a proper investigation, and choose a more appropriate and reliable network - preferably one with a few Gbps of international and local peering.

Thank god someone see's the light. I mean i was hosting stuff at MTNNS, massive pipe there. and even they had power issues. the branch in rosebank. Eventually we moved our servers to the JSE
 
Speaking as someone a little knowledgeable on the subject...

I am an ex-patriot South African who plays WoW and used to be a Game Master for Blizzard. Of course I can't prove this, so it's upto you whether or not you choose to believe me.

GMs were never given too much information, but a lot could be ascertained by the way support tools worked in that they highlight the division of the servers and regions.

I don't think there is enough of a market in SA for Blizzard to justify hosting servers there and I will demonstrate why I think this.

There are only four regions right now for WoW globally:
  • Europe: Servers all hosted in Europe, even the Russians play on servers hosted in Europe and not Russia itself.
  • Americas: Latin America, and Australia all play off servers hosted in the United States. Yes, you may not know this, but Australians have the same latency issues that South Africans do due to distance, although I suspect their ISPs are better.
  • Korea: Pretty self contained.
  • China: Self contained

China is a little different in how it's run, Blizzard itself does not operate WoW there, they have a local company do it. Probably mostly because China has so many censoring laws and is so culturally different to the rest of the world where Blizzard operates.

Otherwise, all the other regions are operated by Blizzard staff entirely, no support is outsourced, Blizzard employs the people with the skills to do everything. They are very proud of being arguably the best producer of computer games in the world, quality is everything to Blizzard, so they keep as much as they can in house. Including running all their own servers on hardware they themselves choose (and the developers program to it as well).

Blizzard uses pretty much the same standard set up for their server sites globally, each "group" of servers is about the same size.

You can see for yourself here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/US_realm_list_by_datacenter

Not at all coincidently, a single "site" is two battlegroups big. In all the time as a GM, it was always the same, all the sites were about the same size, in both Europe and the US. So, looking at the size of two battlegroups, a site is at least 30 realms big.

In my opinion, Blizzard would never put servers in South Africa unless it filled up at least one full site. And I think even one site in South Africa is unlikely because Australia, which definately has a bigger playerbase than the South African potential playerbase, has no site of their own.

So, how many players would be needed to be in SA to justify a site? A busy server is what makes official WoW so much better than private servers. So how busy is a busy server, well, based on use of the census+ addon, I counted it on a PvE realm way before I was at Blizzard and at the time, the realm had a queue, this was still WoW classic. It seemed to be about 3000 after adding both Alliance and Horde player who lists. With TBC they increased the limit, so it's more now, but I will not give the number due to confidentiallity reasons, it's probably worked out on the public web by someone somewhere though.

Alright, so maybe having the server hit at least 2000 everynight would be enough for a good social play experience. This is entirely guess work, but WoW is very casual focussed these days, so on average, people may only spend "maybe" 4 nights a week on WoW, considering some people play every night, and others only play 1 night. So, we need to have an active community of 2,000 + 2,000*3/7 to make sure the servers are busy enough each night, that's about ~2,850 active community members needed per server. So, 30*2,850 = 85,500.

I really guessed everything about the above, but I "think" it makes sense. Also, the math for wanting 1000 active players each night at least works out to about ~42,600.

Do you really think there are that many South Africans willing to pay monthly for WoW?

For those of you thinking "but what about the untapped potential of Africa?", I think you are fooling yourself, except for English, not many people in Africa speak a common language, and outside of South Africa, majority of people don't speak a whole lot of English. And if you are now asking "but Blizzard could translate", then consider that Blizzard is only now (possibly, as it's unconfirmed) looking at an Italian translation of WoW (see http://www.wow.com/2009/05/18/are-blizzard-prepping-polish-and-italian-versions-of-wow/) and Italy has a lot more 1st world potential paying players than South Africa. This is important as translations are very expensive as everything, and for every patch, needs to be translated and done correctly and the you also need to offer Billing, Account and In Game support in that language too, everytime you have a new language team its a lot more expensive than making an existing team a little bigger.

I think AcidRaZor is pretty much right on the money here in that the ISPs here probably don't realize what undertaking it would be, each WoW site handles 10s of 1000s of players, they were probably thinking along the lines of it being like a group of FPS servers, which maybe host 100s of players collectively:

I'd have to disagree strongly with you tinman:

yes, I think they woke up one morning thinking that. Whatever research they have done before the point of asking Blizzard permission is not enough. I don't base my opinion on anything other than their previous track record. End of story.

If they can prove a well researched project that they won't half-ass and screw up then I'd be willing to listen, but mistake after mistake leads me o the same conclusion semaphore has. Blizzard won't accept the proposal because iGame don't know what they're getting themselves into.

a peering server would be nice though, so I'd chalk a victory up on that one if they get that far, at least then we'll be able to assess true numbers of SA people connecting to WoW and would have logs/proof of play to lobby for a local server....

And I agree that the best we can hope for is a nice peering server. Kind of an official proxy server which has good local bandwidh and excellent quality bandwidth to the WoW servers in the EU or the US. Blizzard would most likely put us with the Europeans as the time zone is pretty much the same.

If SA ISPs REALLY wanted to help local players, then they need to provide high quality bandwidth for WoW. Basically, use something like QoS in TCP/IP to make sure that WoW traffic has a higher priority that web or email traffic, that way ping times would be the best possible for South Africans. On premium bandwdth, like on leased line through Internet Solutions, you can get a ping of 200ms to London, so there is no reason why WoW can't be less than 300ms for South Africans.

Anwyay, sorry to get your hopes down, but I believe this is unfortunately the realistic truth.
 
According to Blizzard, there are an estimated 5000 - 7000 active WoW subscribers in SA. Of course these numbers only refer to the players that Blizzard is aware of. According to an industry source at iGame, there are around 20,000 users currently playing on private illegitimate local servers. At one stage, there were reports of around 40,000 registered players on these servers.

WHAHAHAHAHHA, biggest load of bollocks i've ever seen. 20,000 illegal SA players on local servers. Please tell me of these servers with these thousands of players on it.

Currently, the biggest WOW-EMU server locally, got around ~75-120 players on it at the same time early evening at a maximum positive peak and about 0-10 players online during the day.

1) This will never happen
2) If it happens, it would be really stupid move by Activision Blizzard Inc.
 
Just about all of you here are speaking on presumptions.

1) iGame is separate from iBurst. See the name difference??? iGame IS NOT WIRELESS. It is an entire collection of IT specialists in a building somewhere in Sandton.

2) iGame is succesful. iGame servers are by far the most reliable and well maintained game server hosts in South Africa. SAIX has got nothing on them.

3) iGame has at any one point in time got 120people playing high bandwidth FPS games. They do have the infrastructure for low intensity things like WoW.

4) WoW does not need epic low pings, and no, it doesn't eat everything with the work bandwidth attached. I have played on local wow servers, and even though they sucked, there was 200 South Africans online connected to some guy's house with an ADSL line. If you can fit 200 people, without lag onto an ADSL account, I'm sure iGame can handle much much more people on their servers.

5) I know the iGame techies personally. They know what they are doing, and they wouldn't claim they could host a successful WoW server without knowing for sure that they can.

So yes, it is feasible, and I really really hope that they do it.
 
Just about all of you here are speaking on presumptions.

1) iGame is separate from iBurst. See the name difference??? iGame IS NOT WIRELESS. It is an entire collection of IT specialists in a building somewhere in Sandton.

2) iGame is succesful. iGame servers are by far the most reliable and well maintained game server hosts in South Africa. SAIX has got nothing on them.

3) iGame has at any one point in time got 120people playing high bandwidth FPS games. They do have the infrastructure for low intensity things like WoW.

4) WoW does not need epic low pings, and no, it doesn't eat everything with the work bandwidth attached. I have played on local wow servers, and even though they sucked, there was 200 South Africans online connected to some guy's house with an ADSL line. If you can fit 200 people, without lag onto an ADSL account, I'm sure iGame can handle much much more people on their servers.

5) I know the iGame techies personally. They know what they are doing, and they wouldn't claim they could host a successful WoW server without knowing for sure that they can.

So yes, it is feasible, and I really really hope that they do it.

sorry wow doesn't need low pings? erm what planet are you living on, anything from a 100 ping difference is a major disadvantage,

as for the 200 persons per adsl account, that may be so for private servers if you know how private servers work then you would realize they all run off a simple loader it is TOTALLY different from official ones. ( official servers actually trigger in game content and make things more interesting then tank and spank.
 
Just about all of you here are speaking on presumptions.

1) iGame is separate from iBurst. See the name difference??? iGame IS NOT WIRELESS. It is an entire collection of IT specialists in a building somewhere in Sandton.

If you can read that was already discussed and pointed out. Who pays/sponsors iGame?

Wait, maybe I can use my super duper detective skills: http://www.iburst-gaming.com/

Same company to me...

2) iGame is succesful. iGame servers are by far the most reliable and well maintained game server hosts in South Africa. SAIX has got nothing on them.

So you're saying iGame is better than SAIX gaming? Really? SAIX has a proven track record and you have.... what... been around 2% of the time they have been? O-kay... you tell yourself that...

3) iGame has at any one point in time got 120people playing high bandwidth FPS games. They do have the infrastructure for low intensity things like WoW.

I just logged on and didn't see 120 people playing... sorry but pulling statistics out of your ass just makes you look bad buddy.

4) WoW does not need epic low pings, and no, it doesn't eat everything with the work bandwidth attached. I have played on local wow servers, and even though they sucked, there was 200 South Africans online connected to some guy's house with an ADSL line. If you can fit 200 people, without lag onto an ADSL account, I'm sure iGame can handle much much more people on their servers.

I doubt they had no lag, but ping times are very very important. Just do a quick search on these forums to get an idea on how many people asks (almost weekly) what the best way is to reduce their ping time. Sure, it may not be high-bandwidth, but low ping is still required just as it is important for FPS games

5) I know the iGame techies personally. They know what they are doing, and they wouldn't claim they could host a successful WoW server without knowing for sure that they can.

So yes, it is feasible, and I really really hope that they do it.

There you go, you're bias. And we're not saying the technies don't know what they're doing, we're saying they don't have a clue about what is required by Blizzard to run these servers, what their minimum requirements are (which will probably suprise these guys) and I'm sorry (the sarcastic sorry) but I don't see the machine specs required to run a server anywhere on the internet? Maybe my Google-skill is lacking a bit here.

The Former GM also noted that Blizzard runs it's own infrastructure. Have it's own employees there (well, except for China, but they're spechul). So what in the world makes you think they'll host a server here with a company and outsource it to them?

Peering Server... awesome idea, I'd go for that. iGame is capable of running THAT. Blizzard will allow them to do THAT. But not host servers. I don't care what data centre you're in or how much bandwidth you have through fibre (so to make it clear I'm not talking about wireless so I can stop you in your tracks for trying to argue on a dead point). South Africa CANNOT sustain the QUALITY gameplay Blizzard wants. And if you know ANYTHING about the company you know they're ready to shut down any project or stop any game if they feel it's not up to their standards. End of Story.

So go pat your iGame buddies on the head and tell them "Good Job" but like I said. I do think they woke up one morning thinking it's a good idea and started it without really doing any kind of research into what Blizzard will and won't accept as standards.

If they went with Blizzard well-prepared, we wouldn't be speculating this right now.
 
would be nice but no thanks 2 well established on EU realms 2 move. And corect me if I'm wrong but doesnt 1 wow realm = 5 high end servers not counting BGs
 
so WoW>fps server as Northrend, kalmd, eastern K, instances and outland each run on a separate server
 
I wonder if Blizz can at least pull the number of african players from all their realms to give us a figure of how many are currently playing abroad
 
We can argue into 2458 about whether we will or will not get a server and y and y-not. The only thing is to wait and see if Blizzard will or wont do it no use argueing about it
 
I wonder if Blizz can at least pull the number of african players from all their realms to give us a figure of how many are currently playing abroad

i'm pretty sure they'll be able to pull connection reports but with services like game max can get difficult
 
So Blizz wants a minimum of 40 000 people??? Thats a bit of an over population for a South african WoW server as there hardly are 40000 people in South africa with home internet that will play World Of Warcraft.

But my view is, Blizzard wont really lose anything to give IGame a chance to create an Official Local server. Surely they can make it something Like a Beta at first, where regular Retail SA players can get transferred to the WoW servers to test out the latency, uptime and overall performance. Then obviously launch the real thing.

If its a success, Blizzard can get a good impression of the server and maybe decide to employ a gm, and add some support like the Europe servers.
 
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