Looking for C++ Programmers for upcoming MMORPG (South African Made)

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Nemeses

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Hey guys,

To get straight to the juicy stuff, I currently head a small organisation which is creating an MMORPG, based in, and mainly for South Africa.

In this team, we have 3 Programmers, 1 Concept Artist, 2 3D Modellers and 2 Game Designers. Being this, I am still looking for about 2-3 Programmers, 1-2 Concept Artists, and another 3D Modeller.

Right now, we cant offer any payment, this until the game has been released. On that topic, it will be a R50 fee to pay per month, which beats the price of almost all other Pay2Play games.

This project will be primarily a first for our South African gaming community. It will be dedicated to South Africans, by South Africans. So, you are not only going to help us create a game, but also a pathway to show that we can deliver something that will be world-renowned.

The concept and general idea of the game takes it out of the conventional MMO gaming system. That may sound like something insignificant now, but lets put some thought behind it. If you look at almost any MMORPG, you will see that its awesome game play, and general system vastly replicates that of WoW.
"So what...?" you might ask. Well, all games are based on a DnD Questing and experience system. The basic gameplay and storyline can be taken from WoW's, broken, backbone. So in retrospect, you are basically playing the same game, just with a bit more polish.

So, what if I tell you that out MMO will shatter those boundaries. That it will immerse the player in a new sence of freedom, and take the rules and leave it to a players moral code, still while holding the boundaries of a good gaming time? Because this, my friends, is what we are going to do.

As a recollection of all that has been said, we are looking for a programmer to fill a C++ coding spot. One that will, like the rest of the team, work for the game instead of money, and then show their hard work to the world, to then generate a revenue from this.

If you feel like you are up for the task, please contact me, wither as a PM, or email at [email protected].
 
This is going to take a very long time if its a part time project (don't know where you going to get capable programmers to do this full time with no pay), but many have shown that this is possible and I wish you all the best of luck! I have just started getting in to C++, maybe one day I will help out :)
 
Yeah, we can't hope to ask for full time commitment.

Everyone here either has a job, or is studying. But we are making good progress, so at least we aren't doing nothing

:)
 
Interested to know more about your organisation. Whats the name of the company? Is it an actual company? Where is the funding for the venture coming from?

Also very curious as to why a Massively Multiplayer etc game would only be focussed on the relatively small South African market? Do you have any plans to expand that?

Also, why the monthly fee? For a smaller market you might need it, but it appears the for MMORPGS, the trend is free to play, with micro transactions and other services that are charged for. So whats the motivation for the monthly fee and do you have any other models for the venture?

Whats your motivation for the game? To make lots of cash? Or, just have some fun?

More info plz.
 
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The organisation as such has been recently established, so we haven't registered a name as of yet. Right now, we are bonded by a confidentiality and Restraint agreement document, and the sheer will to create an MMO that will add change to a lot of gamers perception about gaming.

The South African market is not small. Also, we want to establish a community, not a market. We are focusing on our home country because of the huge grey zone we are in. No huge company really cares about SA, not to mention the fact that I don't want to create a game to get blended into the many out there. It is targeted at SA because we need a change here. WE need to show that SA can be a great host to games, and that we can in fact create a game that could rival the best. We also intend to show the programmers of our lovely country that even a small idea, not matter what it is, can create a change for the better.

A monthly fee is needed, because unlike most games from the US, Europe etc, we aren't backed by a huge company. This means we can't just generate a revenue from advertising, or selling in-game goods. We need a base to work off, and funds to allow us to be able to host. And R50 is nothing compared to other games. We basically need it to cover costs.

I basically described the motivation for the game. Its to promote change, to show that we can, and to give gamers a hell of a good time. All that comes way before the money factor.

Information about the game, such as concepts, ideas, and general gameplay can only be given once the party intended signs the Confidentiality and Restraint agreement.
 
Busy studying c++ at the moment :P working for free is difficult when we have jobs and all but hope this works out! Although I hate paying for games pm and as a student I rather play something free.
 
AI is going to be LUA, although we can implement Python.

@koeks, the only reason I said its a PPM now is because of the factors i mentioned in my previous post, plus R50 is almost nothing. If you are going to complain about a R50 fee to play a game that's only trying to support itself, then that's your own fault.
However, if you can find us people that will sponsor the projects servers, its Internet, and also find people that will hire out a venue, and to work on it for free, then please tell me.
 
the South African market is small when compared to the world market. If you have such a revolutionary take on this genre of gaming then you should no way be restricting it to the local market - that financially does not make any sense. You will also need to really find out why South Africans will pay R50 to play your game, as opposed to R0 to play international games that offer much larger communities, which frankly, many of us like - we enjoy playing with Europeans, Americans etc.

It's clear that you're an idealist. I think what you are trying to do is great, but really, if you get over the big challenge of actually making your game, the bigger challenge will be making it financially viable. It sounds like a hobby at the moment?

Locally, how many players were you hoping to secure every month? And how big is the market in your estimation?
 
We are not restricting it at all. You need to understand that.
This will be a local and international game, and we aren't only going to advertise in the South African commerce.

If you actually understand what I'm trying to say, its just to open South African gates. Not to only get a South African market.

And then pay R0 for international games. Hell, people pirate stuff all the time just to pay R0 for.
But, you do get people who will pay for a good service, and quality material. Who understand the concept of what I'm TRYING to get across, and that will actually pay R50 knowing its going to help out something that's new.

If you feel that you can't do that. That you cant support something local, and would rather help the rest of the world keep us in a grey zone, then be my guest. I'm not looking to prove myself, the company or the game. Only to get the word out there.

Also, locally and internationally, players per month is not our interest. When we release a demo, then secure a community, not a commerce, we will get our average per month. So, as I said BEFORE, we are not doing this for the money.
 
Excuse my confusion. You said in your original post it is "based in, and mainly for South Africa" and "It will be dedicated to South Africans, by South Africans". Im not really getting the international draw there and you seem to be getting kind of defensive on these basic questions.

If players per month is your revenue model, and you dont care how many players you have paying you every month, then you clearly have no idea how you're going to cover your costs longer term, or even more frighteningly, what your costs may be. It doesnt sound like you've even given that much thought - you're kind of hoping for the best and promising whoever steps up "some money" "when" things get going. One thing is for sure though, if you want a longer term future, you need money. People dont invest money or time without there being a return. And you know that really. So you should think about this if you are serious here.

Lets say you paid your team of 12 180k each after your project goes live and then very very conservatively you have ontop of that extra costs of R100,000 to rent someones garage, do some internet marketing, pay for Internet connectivity etc. Thats R2.26 million a year is costs. You need over 45,000 players every month to break even. More if you actually want to make it a viable business.

It doesnt appear from your posts that any of this has crossed your mind at all. I admire your enthusiasm and your drive, and your passion, but this is not a business. It's a hobby. This much is clear to me now. Unfortunately, it's even harder to get people to work for free on your hobby. So I really wish you the best of luck, and I hope you keep us appriased on how you get on.

You also dont secure a community when you release a demo....you should at least create a website for updates on teasers on your "top secret" project that dont somehow contravene your confidentiality agreements. That way people can follow your progress and you can build up a community BEFORE you release a demo.

In addition to your tech people, you should seriously consider trying to get someone with a bit of marketing/financial savvy to work with you for free too, so that this might actually stand a chance of seeing the light of day, which right now i dont think it does. Like i said best of luck and keep us posted. Very keen to see how you get on, and wishing you the best in all honesty.
 
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Markd said:
Interested to know more about your organisation. Whats the name of the company? Is it an actual company? Where is the funding for the venture coming from?

Also very curious as to why a Massively Multiplayer etc game would only be focussed on the relatively small South African market? Do you have any plans to expand that?

Also, why the monthly fee? For a smaller market you might need it, but it appears the for MMORPGS, the trend is free to play, with micro transactions and other services that are charged for. So whats the motivation for the monthly fee and do you have any other models for the venture?

Whats your motivation for the game? To make lots of cash? Or, just have some fun?

More info plz.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of these games currently. So the question is why should anyone want to play a cheapo, local version? There would have to be compelling reason or maybe this becomes a nice learning experience in every respect.
 
Markd has a few valid points.

First thing you need to do if you cannot answer questions in a way that does not offend possible contributors would be to find someone in your team who is level headed and can be a "community manager".

A few team members you seem to be missing are sound, 2d graphics (textures) and a community manager/marketer/Webdesigner. Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.

As mentioned by Markd, if you actually intend launching the game at some stage you need to consider the whole picture. How are you going to divide ownership of the project, once it goes live how ill you divide profit/loss. How much is each team member expecting to earn once the project goes live? What are your expected server costs?
Once you know how much you can expect to pay out every month once live, then you can work out how many subscribers you would need to make it feasible.

Have you done any market reasearch on how many players on average a indie mmorpg gets and in what timeframe?

Will it be feasible to continue having a geographically distrubited team once the project goes live?, will the member's be prepared to move if needed? if not how will you deal with this considering they may own a part of the company and now less productive then the team under one roof?

Do you have a marketing plan?

These are just some questions that spring to my mind and should not be taken as critisicm but rather suggestions.
 
Hey guys, just thought I would add my post to this. I am a member of the organisation mentioned in the original post, and hopefully I will be able to clear up some of the confusion.

Just to give everyone a brief understanding of where we're coming from, we started this project with an idea. The idea was to create an Online game that was unique in the sense that it would restrict the player as little as possible in the choices they make, as well as a few other aspects I'm not at liberty to mention at this time. We wanted to provide a game that was created in South Africa, and focused on the South African gaming community. While this type of project is a first for our team, I believe we have the drive, the passion, and the skills to pull it off. Please remember that Microsoft was started simply by a group of individuals that had an idea and decided to go for it.
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Now to address some of the questions and topics brought up.

@ Markd - When it was said that the game would be focused on South Africa, what was meant was that the South African gaming community would have access to the majority of the benefits derived from this game as it will be hosted here in South Africa. This means that players here will have a reduced ping when connecting to our servers, and will have the option to attend events held by our organization. As any gamers in South Africa can surely agree, while the current online gmaes out there at the moment may be enjoyable, the greatest issue we have is dealing with having to connect to international servers, either based in the US or Europe, and having no access to events/venues etc held by the companies of these games. Our organization is simply hoping to provide that type of service to gamers here in South Africa. We are creating a game dedicated to this community first, but which will still be completely available to international players.

In regards to our finiacial plan, a lot of thought has gone into how we are going to fund this project and deal with the expenses generated by keeping the game up and running each month. The reason for creating this game has never and, for the founding members of the organization especially, will never be about generating personal wealth. We are not in this to create a profit, but simply to provide a service. That said, unfortuanitly it will cost to keep this game running. That is why we have decided to make the first full release of the game pay-to-play. Keeping in mind that a month of game time on World of Warcraft would cost about +R300, I find it hard to believe that R50 per month would be such an issue to gamers. We are currently in the process of putting together a team to deal with the finacial and marketing side of the project. It is our hope that we can generate enough monthly income through sponsorships, advertising ect that it would allow us to remove the monthly payment placed on players, and have the game become Free-To-Play, however until such time as we can get that type of backbone in place and provide "micro transactions and other services that are charged for", the game will remain Pay-To-Play, at a fairly reasonable price.

As for building a community, we are currently in the process of creating a website to provide "teasers" for prospective players. Members of our organization are also involved in many online communities and we are looking toward spreading news about the game through these channels. However, at the current phase of the games development, it is not yet neccesary to implement these plans. Once the demo for the game has been created, we are fairly certain we will have access to enough people to release it and generate feedback.
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@ Lounger - We do not consider our game to be "cheapo" in any sense, and are currently working toward creating a game that will hopefully rival the likes of WoW, Eve Online, Guild Wars to name but a few.
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@ Fonoi - I apologise if this or any previous posts may have come across as devensive or offensive. It is just difficult sometimes to try explain an idea and the reason behind it when you can so clearly see and understand it, but others see it from an outside and business point of view. It is my hope that this post will help with this process.

In regards to the missing members of our team, we are currently looking for sound engineers, graphic artists for both 2D and 3D work, game designers and several others personel. We already have members skilled in web design, and are in the process of creating a marketing team, as mentioned earlier.

In regards to ownership of the project, that will solely belong the the company we are currently in the process of estiblishing. Once the company and the game go live, all members of the project team will have the option to be hired on as employees of the company.

Expenses for the project have already been considered, and are constantly being reconsidered as the project progresses.

We have done basic researh into the amount of players to expect and this will be expanded on once our market team in fully in place.

As for the geographical location of the team currently working on the project, while it has been considered, it is not currently a matter of great concern and will be address once the need arises.
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It is my hope that this post has helped to resolve some of the confusion of the earlier posts. Should you have any other questions or suggestions, please feel free to comment, as we are more then willing to accept helpful critisicm

However, I would like it stated that while yes we are fairly new to this, we are dedicated to seeing the project finished and the idea acheived. We consider this a business, a passion and a life's work, not a "hobby" as previously mention. We have not stepped into this undertaking half hearted, and fully understand the size and responsibility of the project.

We are looking for people that are dedicated to the same principles as we are, and not people who simply see this as a means to make money. If you wish to use this project as a means to further your own practical experience in your chosen field, then we would welcome you.

To end off using a quote that I believe helps to rely our dedication:

"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead

Best Regards,
DQ
 
@DarklinQuincy: Well handled. Please become the public face of your project. @Nemeses: Awesome that you posted here. Please consider getting DarklinQuincy (or another team member) to proof read your posts before you hit send. It might just provide a little different perspective.

Good luck to all of you. Coming from a small company, I wish you every success. I won't be able to dev for you, but may just sign up to buy / play (even in the beta stage).
 
Good luck to you. I hope you succeed. South Africans are generally extremely risk averse, which stifles innovation. Don't be put of by the negativity.

The biggest challenge you face is getting a steady subscription base in what is relatively a small market. Sustaining the effort while building up your subscriber is going to be tough. Building a platform that can be scaled up as demand increases will help.

Learning the lessons from the industry is key, but knowing which lessons to learn is probably even more important. Take for example Blizzard. At every patch and expansion they get a lot of criticism. The trick is to understand which should be acted on and which should not. There is no way you can satisfy everyone.

When you do make a major mistake, how you recover from it is very important.

Btw., have you looked at Eve online website recently? There is a big apology letter from the CEO. I don't exactly know what happened and it may or may not be relevant to you, but have a look how they deal with it and how the community responds.
 
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