M-Net HD on DStv

[BBSA]

is the hd pvr out yet?

Yes, since the the beginning of August

 

[arf9999]

I disagree because a lot of the artifacts and shuddering disappears as the Hz increases. Samsung now have a 120 Hz refresh rate compared to philips 100Hz(3ms). It the same with normal PC screen If the panel can refresh the display in 3ms as opposed to the older 8+ standard the quality and display is much better.

You're confused between panels and source. If your signal is based on 50Hz, you can refresh at 1000Ghz, you're not going to improve the picture.
Samsung and Sony use a system called Motionflow, where the TV extrapolates an additional frame/field in order to smooth the motion, but this doesn't fix the fundamental problem of interlace artifacts present in a 1080i signal. Also Samsung's 120Hz is the same as Philip's 100Hz.. it's just based on a original input frequency of 60Hz as opposed to 50Hz (e.g. USA's 1080i/60 instead of UK's 1080i/50). Trying to get the panel to scan at 120Hz for a 50Hz signal is just madness, it'll look awful.

Specially for gaming. It has little to do with the resolution but more about the speed of the panel refresh rate

You're getting confused again. PC gaming requires higher frame rates for PC games because the graphics card is capable of outputting those frequencies. Scanning at 300Hz or even 1Ghz would make no difference for a console game because the signal is at 50Hz or 60Hz and is a progressive signal already..

 

[UnoPanelvan]

You're confused between panels and source. If your signal is based on 50Hz, you can refresh at 1000Ghz, you're not going to improve the picture.
Samsung and Sony use a system called Motionflow, where the TV extrapolates an additional frame/field in order to smooth the motion, but this doesn't fix the fundamental problem of interlace artifacts present in a 1080i signal. Also Samsung's 120Hz is the same as Philip's 100Hz.. it's just based on a original input frequency of 60Hz as opposed to 50Hz (e.g. USA's 1080i/60 instead of UK's 1080i/50). Trying to get the panel to scan at 120Hz for a 50Hz signal is just madness, it'll look awful.

You're getting confused again. PC gaming requires higher frame rates for PC games because the graphics card is capable of outputting those frequencies. Scanning at 300Hz or even 1Ghz would make no difference for a console game because the signal is at 50Hz or 60Hz and is a progressive signal already..

Well I am stumped. Do Philips and Samsung engineers have it wrong then? As I read and understand it. Motion blur, the biggest evil with LCD's is improved allowing for clearer crisper movement from frame to frame. Maybe we are not on the same wavelength.

http://www.hi-def-tv-blog.com/2008/01/04/samsung-lnt5271f-52-1080p-120hz-lcd-hdtv/

Samsung’s incredible Auto Motion Plus 120Hz technology reduces motion blur for crisp, precise action.

This technology doubles the frame rate from 60 to 120 frames per second (120Hz LCD panel) without repeating the same image to make more frames. Instead, the TV intelligently calculates the ‘middle’ image between frame A and frame B and inserts it in between (Auto Motion Plus 120Hz processor), making a fluid transition from one frame to the next.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Philips-37PFL9632D/Conclusion/

and [100Hz Clear LCD] which delivers the most substantial reduction in motion blurring I've seen on an LCD TV so far

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/37pfl9632d_10/37pfl9632d_10_pss_aen.pdf

100Hz Clear LCD
100Hz Clear LCD creates extreme motion sharpness for clear and vibrant images even with fast on-screen motion. The Double Frame Rate Insertion works with a high 100Hz refresh rate. It increases the sharpness of motion reproduction to more than twice that of conventional LCD, resulting in a response time of 3 milliseconds (measured in Perceived Blur-Edge-Width; BEW). This unique Philips technology brings motion sharpness of LCD displays to an unprecedented level.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/70-Inch-HD-LCD-TV-from-Samsung-38283.shtml

The panel refreshes the picture at double the speed of the LCD panels used in most TVs, and that means 120 Hz. The demonstration took place in Yokohama, Japan, and images and text scrolling across the panel appeared to move more smoothly than on existing TVs

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/06/samsung-announces-two-120hz-1080p-lcds-coming-to-ces-and-stores

The 1080p, 120hz refresh rate 70-inch LCD ............................Here's hoping for a demo connecting one of these displays to an HDMI-1.3 equipped, 1080p24 frame rate

 

[arf9999]

You're completely missing the point. Motionflow improves the smoothness of motion for PROGRESSIVE SIGNALS. Interlace artifacts will still be there with or without motionflow.

And a 120Hz refresh rate will be ok for 24p because 120 is divisible by 24. i.e the TV will create 5 complete frames out of each native frame. However, you can't run at 120Hz with a 50Hz signal because 120Hz isn't divisible by 50. You can't create 2.4 frames per native frame because your timing will be screwed and you'll end up adding artifacts.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

You're completely missing the point. Motionflow improves the smoothness of motion for PROGRESSIVE SIGNALS. Interlace artifacts will still be there with or without motionflow.

And a 120Hz refresh rate will be OK for 24p because 120 is divisible by 24. i.e the TV will create 5 complete frames out of each native frame. However, you can't run at 120Hz with a 50Hz signal because 120Hz isn't divisible by 50. You can't create 2.4 frames per native frame because your timing will be screwed and you'll end up adding artifacts.

Yeah that is understandable. I never stated or meant to state that the faster panel will fix display distortions in the source signal. I never even referred to the source. I am thinking of the panel speed and refresh rate. Motionflow is just the name for the technology to remove blur during motion on the slow panels as they refresh as I understand it. It is exactly that blurring motion that never allowed me to be interested in the LCD's but rather Plasma, But then that lamp replacement also put me off. Thus now that there is faster panels whether it is 120/60 or 100/50 do not faze me as long as that blur is gone. Anyway the 100hz panels from Sony automatically recognizes the 24p cinematic or BluRay format and display or sync on it correctly.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40F86BD/Picture-Quality.php
here is some information that the motion flow may even cause artifacts during operation.

I have seen some LCD's that when the camera pans across the spectators in an sports arena the panel cause your eyes to go cross eyed, you cannot see the spectator for brief seconds. The panel display seems to be jumping with many "artifacts", or whatever noise, created. The same while watching the Olympic opening at HiFi Corp. The only systems that was looking anything worthwhile was the 100 HZ panels and a few other to a lesser degree. Therefore my initial reference that I would prefer to get the faster 100Hz panels (3ms) rather than the others. They put an HD DVD in a 100Hz(3ms) philips LCD for me and that was brilliant. Only price was R34500.00. So I think best is to wait. Buy a 32"" for HD and PC until the prices drop a fair margin. Then again that is 50% plus of a decent panel on promotion. Damn this new uptake of technology can be frustrating.

What is your take on the digital media port for Full HD LCD? Worth it for R2000.00 extra?