Manual vs Automatic

[SauRoNZA]

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How long did you drive the Porsche for? Of course it will be overwhelming if you're not used to the car and performance. Add stick shift and you'll feel lost. Once you're used to the performance, I bet you'll prefer the manual counter part. A 911 turbo S is not exactly your typical daily commute either.

I jumped straight out of a Master V8 left hand drive and very manual race car and into the Porsche.

Probably an hour or so behind the wheel on that occasion. It really doesn’t need a manual counterpart.

The race car could also have done better for the automatic factor, but that’s partly for being left hand drive and being pretty tricky with the super heavy clutch. Would need to spend many many hours in it before the manual would do better than the auto. It didn’t have a calibrated Rev counter though which also made for some tricky moments.

 

[SauRoNZA]

So to summarize ...

Fun - Manual
Performance - Auto
Lazness - Auto

end of story

Fun - More power. Automatic.

No power, manual compromise.

 

[ubercal]

Fun - More power. Automatic.

No power, manual compromise.

no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , Why do you think people with the latest audis etc keep changing there cars.Speed gets boring after awhile as you get used to it.Once the speed factor wares off , there is nothing left.You then have to start looking at a faster car.Why do you think modern cars punt 0 to 60 times ? All these new cars lack personality with silent exhausts and fake noises through the speakers.

 

[SauRoNZA]

no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , Why do you think people with the latest audis etc keep changing there cars.Speed gets boring after awhile as you get used to it.Once the speed factor wares off , there is nothing left.You then have to start looking at a faster car.Why do you think modern cars punt 0 to 60 times ? All these new cars lack personality with silent exhausts and fake noises through the speakers.

Yeah 0-60 is a silly measure of things I have to agree.

To lap times are a much better measure and corner speeds.

There is sometimes a lack of personality I can agree. Except Mercedes it seems these days...which is ironic looking at the past.

I just meant if you have enough power it won’t feel like you need a manual to get the feeling of more out of it, but it will just have enough to keep you entertained through sheer power.

If you still aren’t having fun change to RWD before you change to manual.

And if you still aren’t having fun then turn the assists off.

And if that does work, put spare wheel biscuits on all four corners.

As a last resort if all else fails, buy a manual.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

DBL post

 

[ubercal]

Yeah 0-60 is a silly measure of things I have to agree.

To lap times are a much better measure and corner speeds.

There is sometimes a lack of personality I can agree. Except Mercedes it seems these days...which is ironic looking at the past.

all lets be honest most modern cars (autos) are filled with tech , and basically drive themselves ,with all the fancy traction controls , be it on track or in a straight line.Nothing wrong if you looking for easy no frills outright performance.But they will never be as engaging as a manual .......

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

Yeah the new Polo does too, but it gives me the heebies. If you tap the petrol, it disengages. Tapping the petrol in an automatic car on an incline will not make you roll back, yes?

Yes, hill assist will disengage once you tap the petrol. Some manuals however also have some sort of clutch assist. You just slightly release pressure from clutch and it will auto rev to X, enough to get you rolling, even uphill. Once you roll you tap petrol. Takes a bit getting used to. I think it's called rpm rise. Not 100% sure.

no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , Why do you think people with the latest audis etc keep changing there cars.Speed gets boring after awhile as you get used to it.Once the speed factor wares off , there is nothing left.You then have to start looking at a faster car.Why do you think modern cars punt 0 to 60 times ? All these new cars lack personality with silent exhausts and fake noises through the speakers.

My wife had a GTI. Great car all around, very boring to drive, apart from the farting noises. Warranty was about to expire so I sold it and got her a ST. The ST is not the fastest car, but boy is that manual box fun.

 

[Geoff.D]

You are right, I have not driven many modern automatics. I always refuse an automatic hire car on principal.
I have though, sat in the passenger seat and observed others' driving their automatics. And it happens exactly as I state. You can see the frustration on the face of the driver when he realises he is not going to get past that pesky 4 x 4. Watch what happens when gets to the top of the hill! Mostly, I end up feeling sorry for the arsehole and let him get past so that he can bugger off and pester someone else with his bad driving ability and fancy car.

But then just around the corner, here he is still not realising what he has to do to maintain his cruising speed.
And BTW, my vehicle is also just about always on cruise control.

 

[ubercal]

Also going back to new cars ... there is a reason why these new cars also want to dice.The reason is simple , they just not exciting enough , and the only thing that is remotely engaging is for them to robot race.Older manual cars its all about the driver , the car and the road.No need to dice others for excitement.Look at cars like the S2000 , subaru etc.These are cars with real personality.Show me a modern car that have huge turbos , dump values , 9000rpm redlines ,screamer pipes , obnoxiuous cold air intakes ? This is what makes a fun car.

A good example of what makes a fun car is that youtube Shmee150.He has tons of new fancy high powered cars but his favourite is his "slow" 450hp manual Aston Martin Vantage GT8.

Also due to this obsession with performance ,strict regulations manfacturers are stuffing cars with tech , as a way to entice new car buyers.Without performance and computer gadgets these cars dont have anything to offer the real petrolhead.If you want a fun car why do you need to be fiddling around with touchscreens when you should be focused on driving ?

Again , compare a tesla to lambo murcielago.the tesla will beat it in a drag race , but which car would you rather own ?

Again there is a reason people with performance manuals keep there cars for +20 years.Do you know why ? Simple they are fun and never get boring.

Deep down the car manufacturers know that they finding it difficult to make fun cars , and are trying to come up with ways to keep it fun such as fake exhaust noises in the cabin.Again to summarize ...

You want performance and ease of use get a auto.You want fun get a manual.

 

[asshat99]

While I mostly do agree there is something to be said for the experience being a lot more visceral in a shitbox and it feeling like it's going to kill you at much lower speeds than the faster alternatives.

All that lack of suspension, lack of door padding and proper window seals makes it feel like a race car albeit it a slow one.

Yeah, but should we (as the responsible adults) be peddling terror as a lifestyle choice? Maybe if they had an unpredictable laggy 3 speed auto, they could be feeling the terror but without causing the traffic jam on the N1 at the little slope.

 

[asshat99]

You are right, I have not driven many modern automatics. I always refuse an automatic hire car on principal.
I have though, sat in the passenger seat and observed others' driving their automatics. And it happens exactly as I state. You can see the frustration on the face of the driver when he realises he is not going to get past that pesky 4 x 4. Watch what happens when gets to the top of the hill! Mostly, I end up feeling sorry for the arsehole and let him get past so that he can bugger off and pester someone else with his bad driving ability and fancy car.

But then just around the corner, here he is still not realising what he has to do to maintain his cruising speed.
And BTW, my vehicle is also just about always on cruise control.

Yeah, shame, did you tell the other guy it was a race? Because we all know that old 4x4s are so fast right.

Sounds more like you are jealous more than anything else.

A 'modern fancy BMW' can shift down 3 gears faster than you can move your hand from the wheel down to the lever and moving it. Milliseconds. And they are slow compared to a PDK. A 'modern fancy BMW' would not have to gear down to maintain speed on a that slope.

Maybe the look on his face was contempt at the clown in the old time bakkie playing with someone who just wants to get to their destination and who doesn't want to deal with someone frustrated and insecure and who is playing 'speeding up' games because he is being passed by someone with a nicer car.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Yeah, shame, did you tell the other guy it was a race? Because we all know that old 4x4s are so fast right.

Sounds more like you are jealous more than anything else. We all know Geoff's kind in traffic: the kind who tailgate in stop-and-go traffic because it's the only time their old cars can keep up and they can feel dominant.

A 'modern fancy BMW' can shift down 3 gears faster than you can move your hand from the wheel down to the lever and moving it. Milliseconds. And they are slow compared to a PDK. A 'modern fancy BMW' would not have to gear down to maintain speed on a that slope.

Maybe the look on his face was contempt at the clown in the old time bakkie playing with someone who just wants to get to their destination and who doesn't want to deal with someone frustrated and insecure and who is playing 'speeding up' games because he is being passed by someone with a nicer car.

Hahaha, YES. A million times yes.

 

[Neuk_]

So to summarize ...

Fun - Manual
Performance - Auto
Lazness - Auto

end of story

Wait just a minute...

I did a driving experience a few years back at Zwartkops, I would have preferred Kyalami but it was a gift. I chose a Lamborghini Gallardo (eGear) and a Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS (Manual). Besides the obvious differences between the two cars, the Porsche with manual gearbox was millions and millions of miles more satisfying to drive than the Lamborghini. From my experience, it is a showdown between BMW's SMG and Lamborghini's eGear for the worst 'automatic' gearbox ever.

 

[Neuk_]

Oh yes, you are right there. I see it every time I go on a long trip to say CT. I can and do reach an average speed of >90 kph, staying within the 120kph limit with ease, without losing speed on uphills with absolute ease, simply because I know when to "downshift". A laggy underpowered "automatic" where the "car" is supposed to make those decisions for you and you as a driver does not intervene when needed, stands zero chance of achieving the same performance. And the same goes for that fancy high powered "automatic" car.

The classic example is that long uphill stretch just before Colesberg, which is fortunately now a double lane. Me in my 4 x 4, pulls over to the left, changes gears smoothly and maintains his speed up that hill with ease. Along comes that flashy BMW automatic, who tries to pass and just sits there struggling to keep up, pushing the gas pedal through the floorboards wondering why he can't pass me!

We took my fancy 'high' powered car to Pretoria yesterday and I used cruise control along the N14 and had zero issues keeping to the set speed. Perhaps there are some really underpowered, small, city type cars that would struggle to maintain the national speed limit but I have never experienced what you describe in any automatic car that I have driven.

 

[Geoff.D]

Yeah, shame, did you tell the other guy it was a race? Because we all know that old 4x4s are so fast right.

Sounds more like you are jealous more than anything else.

A 'modern fancy BMW' can shift down 3 gears faster than you can move your hand from the wheel down to the lever and moving it. Milliseconds. And they are slow compared to a PDK. A 'modern fancy BMW' would not have to gear down to maintain speed on a that slope.

Maybe the look on his face was contempt at the clown in the old time bakkie playing with someone who just wants to get to their destination and who doesn't want to deal with someone frustrated and insecure and who is playing 'speeding up' games because he is being passed by someone with a nicer car.

Who is racing? The fancy oke in his blik met wiele is! I don't have to race. My goal is to travel within the speed limits at a constant moving average speed and get to my destination safely. I have nothing to prove.
And making assumptions again about what I drive! BMW drivers are known for having some or other superiority complex.

 

[Geoff.D]

We took my fancy 'high' powered car to Pretoria yesterday and I used cruise control along the N14 and had zero issues keeping to the set speed. Perhaps there are some really underpowered, small, city type cars that would struggle to maintain the national speed limit but I have never experienced what you describe in any automatic car that I have driven.

The N14 between Kdp and PTA going north. hmm, some really challenging hills on that stretch of road .
And what did you set the cruise control on and why? Within the speed limits?

And again, this is all about the proliferation of smaller-engined cars equipped with "automatic boxes".

 

[Neuk_]

The N14 between Kdp and PTA going north. hmm, some really challenging hills on that stretch of road .
And what did you set the cruise control on and why? Within the speed limits?

And again, this is all about the proliferation of smaller-engined cars equipped with "automatic boxes".

CC set at 110km/h because I like to use it on highways.

You stated the following, hence me mentioning my fancy high powered "automatic" car.

Oh yes, you are right there. I see it every time I go on a long trip to say CT. I can and do reach an average speed of >90 kph, staying within the 120kph limit with ease, without losing speed on uphills with absolute ease, simply because I know when to "downshift". A laggy underpowered "automatic" where the "car" is supposed to make those decisions for you and you as a driver does not intervene when needed, stands zero chance of achieving the same performance. And the same goes for that fancy high powered "automatic" car.

The classic example is that long uphill stretch just before Colesberg, which is fortunately now a double lane. Me in my 4 x 4, pulls over to the left, changes gears smoothly and maintains his speed up that hill with ease. Along comes that flashy BMW automatic, who tries to pass and just sits there struggling to keep up, pushing the gas pedal through the floorboards wondering why he can't pass me!

 

[Claymore]

A manual transmission car is where you learn to become one with a car! It is the only way in my opinion, that anyone can truly learn to appreciate the joy of driving a car. All this automation is taking that away from all of us ---.

Do you still control your car's fuel/air mixture manually? If not, why not? The computer control just doesn't give you the same level of control.

 

[Geoff.D]

CC set at 110km/h because I like to use it on highways.

You stated the following, hence me mentioning my fancy high powered "automatic" car.

So do I. That is after all, what cruise control is all about. Now what do you think is going to happen IF a lower-powered car would try and do the same on that stretch of road?

 

[Geoff.D]

Do you still control your car's fuel/air mixture manually? If not, why not? The computer control just doesn't give you the same level of control.

Now you are just being an idiot.
But to answer your question, IF it was an old beetle or Mini with a SU carb, I would have long ago seen to it that the performance was optimised to the point of shaping the needle for optimal performance at all revs.

And yes there IS once again quite a bit of "evidence" around suggesting that the fancy computer-controlled LOWER POWERED cars hardly benefit at all from those electronic measures.